From the episode published Aug 31, 2018, here is how to overcome social anxiety in your career. Start the day on offense with an early routine and a few minutes of meditation, then keep walking into the conversations that scare you until they get easier. Chris “Drama” Pfaff built a clothing brand, starred on MTV, and hosts a successful podcast while still dealing with social anxiety in a lot of situations. His story is useful because it shows what progress looks like when the anxiety never fully leaves the room. It gets smaller, and you get better at working with it. Social anxiety at work gets easier with a why-not mindset, a morning routine that puts you on offense, and the willingness to push through discomfort repeatedly until it shrinks.
Social anxiety at work shows up in the weekly stand-up when it is your turn to speak, the hallway chat with a senior leader, the networking event after hours and the video call where you unmute and your mind empties. Each step below maps to one of those moments, so scan the headings and begin with the one you dread most. Pick a single step and repeat it, because the repetition does the heavy lifting.
This guide is drawn from Art of Charm Podcast episode 718 (published Aug 31, 2018), where hosts AJ and Johnny go through Drama’s methods, from the why-not mindset to what to say when your mind goes blank at work. Quotes and clips with a timestamp link are Drama’s own words and jump to the exact moment in the video. The rest of the conversation is condensed into plain guidance, so you can use it without hunting through the recording. Treat the steps below as a menu and start with whichever one feels most doable.
Key Takeaways
- Social anxiety and success can live together. Drama built a clothing brand, hosted a podcast, and starred on reality TV while describing his anxiety as a constant battle that has gotten much better. Your goal at work is progress you can see, and perfection is optional.
- Repetition builds the comfort. His earliest podcast episodes were miserable, and after many recordings he felt comfortable in all his conversations. Pick the meeting, call or presentation you have been avoiding and give yourself another rep this week.
- Start your day on offense. Waking up early enough to meditate, work out, and get ahead of your inbox changes how you show up in every interaction that follows.
- Ask questions and let the spotlight move. When you’re nervous, put the attention on the other person. You take the pressure off yourself and become more interesting in the process.
- Own your awkwardness out loud. Saying how you feel disarms the tension. Once it is said, you and the other person can move on to the real conversation.
From Reality TV Sidekick to Self-Made Entrepreneur
Christopher “Drama” Pfaff started out improvising. Right before he graduated high school, he emailed his cousin Rob Dyrdek a long message offering to clean floors and do whatever it took to come out to LA. When he moved, Rob had printed all of Drama’s corny MySpace photos, laid them out on the kitchen counter, and introduced him to everyone as an up-and-coming rapper from Akron, Ohio. That introduction was made up. Some time later, they started filming Rob and Big, the show took off, and Drama’s nickname stuck. Even his mom calls him Drama now.
Drama sat well down the line on a hit show, with Rob collecting sponsorship money and Big Black as the bigger star. His options looked like professional reality TV star or assistant, and neither one appealed to him. So he spent that stretch scrambling to find his own thing.
He tried music production first, drawing on a lifetime of playing drums, and made records for YellowWolf, Kelly Rowland, and Trey Songz. He had some success. When Fantasy Factory started and Big Black moved to Texas to raise his daughter, Drama moved up in the lineup and saw his opening to launch a clothing brand. Young & Reckless was born, and it worked well enough that he left the music world behind.
The pattern in Drama’s path is easy to borrow. He felt stuck in someone else’s role, and he kept trying things until one of them fit. If you feel boxed in at your own job, read your situation this way: you are allowed to keep experimenting until you find your thing. Try a stretch assignment, a cross-team project or a short informational chat with someone whose work interests you, and notice which one gives you energy. Keep a short list of what you tried and how each one felt, so the pattern shows up on paper.
The “Why Not” Mindset That Changes Everything
The hosts describe Drama’s path as a why-not mantra: reality TV, then music production, then a clothing brand, and then podcasting. Each step looked a little uncomfortable, and each one led to the next opening. That is the core idea behind taking the next interesting step instead of waiting for the perfect one.
Here is Drama making the case that most of us need a good dose of it.
“I think that for the rest of us, the people that just want to be successful and enjoy what they do and make some impact here on the earth, you have to have quite a bit of why not.”
Drama, Art of Charm Podcast episode 718, Aug 31, 2018 (00:19:14)
Some of his biggest opportunities looked silly at first, and reality TV is the clearest example, since it slingshotted his life into an area where he is happy beyond belief. Drama also tested the idea on his own team by offering to take anyone skydiving. A small group committed and the rest wanted nothing to do with it, which tells you who is young and reckless at heart. He treats each opening as the next move. Drama missed creating content, so he started a podcast, and it changed his life in surprising ways. That is how building authentic confidence works, with action creating clarity and competence over time.
Look for the next move in front of you
The next move is often right in front of you, and it is easy to miss when you are busy worrying about all the reasons you can’t. At work, write down the last invitation, request or idea you waved away, and ask what it might have led to. Then pick the one with the smallest first step and take that step today.
Say yes to one small invitation this week
Pick an invitation you would normally decline, such as a project outside your job description, a team lunch, or a coffee with a person you barely know. A line that works is “I’d like to try that, what would you need from me?” Afterward, jot down what it led to, so the next yes comes a little easier.
Curious how we train this? See X-Factor Accelerator. X-Factor Accelerator (XFA) is The Art of Charm’s program: a personal starting plan, training materials and weekly group coaching.
How Drama Manages Social Anxiety as a Public Figure
It may surprise you that a man who starred on MTV and runs a brand called Young & Reckless deals with genuine social anxiety. In his early podcast episodes he was thinking about a fake phone ring, anything to get out of the room. That detail matters for you, because it shows that wanting to escape a conversation is a common experience and one you can work through.
Here is how Drama describes the anxiety he lives with today.
“I still deal with it in a lot of situations. There’ll be certain moments still when I’m doing podcasts or whatever work, I’ll feel jammed up and I’ll start to feel that old panic. … The key to my growth and my happiness is right on the other side of that terrible feeling. Absolutely every time.”
Drama, Art of Charm Podcast episode 718, Aug 31, 2018 (00:04:11)
His approach is simple, and it comes in a few steps.
Do the thing anyway
When he started his podcast, his earliest episodes were miserable, and he kept looking for excuses to step outside and take a breath. Now he is comfortable in all his conversations because he has done so many recordings where he was forced to figure it out. Here is Drama on how that comfort got built (00:05:10).
The reps build the comfort, one recording at a time. Every time you push through a moment that makes you want to bolt, you come out a little stronger. At work, that means picking the meeting, call or presentation you have been avoiding and walking into it this week. Start with the smallest version, such as asking one question in a meeting, and build from there.
Start the day on offense
Drama used to sleep in until late morning and pretend he was a real entrepreneur. A friend challenged him to wake up early for a short stretch, and that led to a new routine of rising early and working out regularly. He describes the difference between starting the day on offense and on defense as night and day for anyone who deals with anxiety, and he says it changes how he is in every interaction, including the podcast itself (00:23:28).
Here is the moment where the offense-versus-defense difference is laid out.
For you, the first step can be the same experiment. Choose an earlier wake-up time that gives you quiet time before your inbox starts demanding things, and hold it for a short trial. Use that window for movement, a few minutes of stillness and a look at your top priority, so you meet your first meeting already warmed up.
Meditate for a few minutes
A dinner with older, more successful friends in a busy Beverly Hills restaurant got Drama started. He was beginning to feel anxious there, and they asked whether he meditates (00:51:46).
This clip shows how that dinner turned into a daily habit.
He downloaded an app and now meditates for a short session every morning. The result is that he can notice when he’s losing it and reel it back in quickly, and the moments of needing to bail out have faded.
Notice the signal early
Meditation sounds like a big commitment, much like going to the gym, yet the smallest amount of it is enough. A few minutes is plenty, and you can quiet your mind imperfectly and still benefit. The skill is catching the little signal before it turns into a forest fire, smelling a bit of smoke and telling yourself you have drifted away from the room, then bringing yourself back. If you are new to this, use an app, sit comfortably, follow your breath, and each time your mind wanders, bring it back gently. That return is the rep. Over the first week, notice where in your day the signal shows up most, such as just before you speak or while you wait for a call to connect.
The hosts agree that for anyone who deals with anxiety on any level, the way you start the morning shapes every interaction after it. A calm start gives you room to respond, while a rushed start has you chasing the day. This steady work on personal barriers echoes what successful people understand about developing social skills as an introvert, where consistent practice and self-awareness matter more than natural personality.
Social Anxiety at Work and the First Impressions You Make
Drama’s first impression came from television. He found his place as the little cousin who was the butt of the jokes, and that was his way in. When he later started a business and tried to be taken seriously, people knew him as that TV character and wanted him to stay that way. For a stretch that bothered him a great deal, and then it wore off. His advice to his younger self applies to anyone at work who feels boxed in by a first impression: relax and keep doing the right thing, because it catches up. A reputation shifts through repeated good work, and the steps below give you that work in small pieces.
The same moves help before a meeting. Start the morning on offense, so you walk in having already handled your inbox and your nerves. Open with a question about the other person, which takes the pressure off you while you listen. And if your mind goes blank, say so out loud. People tend to remember how a conversation felt, which is the same point the hosts make below about everyone living in their own movie.
Before the meeting
Finish the small tasks that would otherwise nag at you, then take a few quiet minutes with your breath. Walking in with your inbox handled and your head clear is the offense routine at work scale. Decide on your single most useful contribution, and write it on a card so you can relax about everything else.
In the first minute
Have one opening question ready for each person you expect to see. “What are you working on this week?” or “How did that project land?” gives the other person the floor and gives you time to settle in. If you know who is attending, a quick look at their public profiles can hand you a topic they care about.
When the room goes quiet
A silence after you speak can feel long from the inside. Take a breath, ask a follow-up such as “What would you add?”, and let someone else carry the next few seconds.
After a rough moment
If you stumbled in front of colleagues, a short line the next time you see them works well: “I was a little off in that meeting, thanks for bearing with me.” Saying it out loud lets everyone move on, and it shows the kind of self-awareness people like working with.
How to Move Past Small Talk at Work and Beyond
Many people treat small talk as the enemy of good conversation, and the hosts push back on that idea. Small talk has an undeserved reputation, and plenty of memorable conversations started with boring small talk. Here is Drama on why you can take small talk and turn it big at any time (00:31:26).
For anyone managing social anxiety at work, small talk is often the doorway to the colleague, client or manager you need to know, so treat it as the way in. Boring small talk often traces back to a boring life or a scared person, so the fix is to stay engaged yourself and to get over the fear of asking about someone’s family, hometown or week. The real skill is taking small talk and turning it into something real by actually listening to the other person and being engaging. Little nuggets come out of it, such as growing up in the same region or starting a business, and those become the commonalities the real conversation grows from.
The practical framework runs one move at a time.
Check that you are starting the good talk
Take one moment to be honest with yourself about whether you are the one initiating the good talk. Sometimes you walk in expecting the other person to drive it and end up in no-man’s land, so learn to push a little and steer toward what you want to talk about. When you offer up a bigger question or a bit of vulnerability, the other person is usually happy to move from small talk to big talk. At work, try swapping “How was your weekend?” for “What was the best part of your weekend?” and see how much more you get back.
Start with a question about them
A question about them puts the pressure on them and lets you find your way into the conversation. When you’re nervous, that breathing room is the whole point. Keep a short list of go-to openers in your notes app, such as “What are you working on that you are excited about?” so you never have to invent one under stress.
Actually listen to the answer
Listening is the step most people struggle with. A common trap is lining up your next move while the other person talks, so let them finish with open ears. Listening also gives you the details for your next question. If a colleague mentions a trip, a deadline or a new hire, circle back to it in your reply and you will sound curious because you are.
Make a statement, even if you disagree
Something like “I haven’t seen that one, who’s in it?” is enough. A statement like that lets the other person know you are listening and engaged, so they feel comfortable adding more. A long run of questions puts pressure on the other person, so follow each answer with something of your own, such as a short reaction or a related experience.
Use current events as an entry point
Everyone has an opinion on what’s in the news. Pick topics that keep the mood friendly and that you can bond over, and steer around ones so political that an argument could start. Good workplace picks include a local event, a product launch in your industry or the weather that just disrupted everyone’s commute.
Check their social media beforehand
What people post is what matters to them. Instagram is a photo and video stream where people share what they are proud of or enjoy, so scroll the other person’s recent posts before you meet and pick one to ask about. Before a networking event or a first call with a client, this is a quiet way to lower social anxiety at work. If someone just got a puppy, that is a ready-made topic they will be excited to discuss.
Expect nerves on both sides
Both people at the start of a conversation are usually tense. You are strangers who want to make a great first impression, so the tension you feel is shared. A light, honest opener that gets a smile can break it, and that smile is often what lets a real conversation begin. Your own version might be a comment about the room, the coffee or the agenda, delivered with a relaxed tone.
Go for it, then review how it went
Give the conversation the attempt, then go over afterward how it went and how to do a little better next time. Labeling yourself as nervous before the conversation even happens turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Walk in with a neutral label and let the attempt teach you something. A quick note after each one, such as what worked and what you would adjust, keeps the learning in view.
The conversation formula AJ and Johnny teach runs in a simple sequence. Ask a question, listen to the answer, then make a statement about yourself. It always starts with getting the other person to open up. When they feel heard, they become curious about you. That’s when real connection happens. This groundwork helps when you’re trying to have deeper conversations that go beyond surface-level interaction.
How to Stop Talking About Yourself Too Much
The answer from the episode is to be more curious. Everyone wants to tell their own story, and the best move is to give the other person the chance to tell theirs, since it’s their favorite subject. The people who command a room light up everyone else in it, getting people to smile and engaging in everyone’s workday. When you swap the question of how to take charge of the room for the question of how to get curious about everyone there, the pressure you put on yourself to perform goes away.
Taking interest in the other person is what makes you interesting. That is why the hosts teach the conversation formula, because it gives you an easy sequence to follow. Ask a question, actually listen to the answer, then offer a statement about yourself. If you know you have this problem, treat it like a business task. Write out a run of good questions about the other person’s life, and save one thing about yourself for the very end. It sounds mechanical, but it retrains the habit.
Try it in your next one-on-one
Before a conversation with a colleague, jot down a handful of questions about their work, their week and what they are excited about. Keep them on a card or in your notes app. Ask them in whatever order the talk allows, and let your own story wait until they have finished theirs. Afterward, check what you learned that was new to you.
A deeper insight from the hosts is that the favorite people to work with in Hollywood are the actors who got someone a coffee or asked about their day. Taking interest in other people is one of the most underrated social skills there is, and asking questions suits an introvert well, since you get to pick everyone else’s favorite topic and take the pressure off yourself.
What to Do When You Freeze Up Mid-Conversation
You had your story ready. You rehearsed the joke. Then your mind goes blank. The fix on the episode is to say how you feel out loud, because owning the fact that you feel a little goofy disarms the problem, and the people we like most in life tend to be the ones who own their flaws. Here is Drama on how that works (00:56:21).
Lines you can borrow are “I lost my place for a second” and “Sorry, I blanked, give me a moment.” Each one is perfectly acceptable, and calling it out makes you more likeable and more relatable. A frozen stare is the only option that works against you. Mid-conversation, a slow breath and a quick return to the other person’s last sentence help you reel it back in before it gets out from under you.
Here are moves for recovering from a freeze, some for the moment itself and one mindset that makes them easier.
Name it
Saying “I just blanked” takes away its power. The other person has been there, and they’ll relate and understand.
Ground yourself physically
Ask yourself how your hands feel right now. That simple check can pull you out of the cerebral nervous energy and back into your body. Feel your feet on the floor as well, and you are back in the room.
Put the ball in their court
Ask a question. When you ask someone else a question, you put the spotlight on them, and they are thinking about themselves, which relieves you of worrying how nervous you look. A simple “How do you see it?” buys you a few seconds to regroup.
Let yourself trip over words
People who keep learning and stretching their vocabulary will sometimes trip over their words, and that is a normal part of growth. Get comfortable with fishing for the right word out loud, even saying “I’m not sure that’s the right word, but you know what I mean.” Once you accept that, the pressure of seizing up releases itself. Treat social skills like any other skill, expect mistakes, and tell yourself that if you seized up today, you got it out of your system and can move on.
Stay with the speaker
Seizing up often happens when we get too far ahead of ourselves, lining up the next opportunity to join in. Let the other person finish with open ears. Phones, dinner plans and the dog can pull your attention elsewhere too. In a meeting, put your phone face down and focus on the speaker’s last sentence, so your reply grows out of what they actually said.
How to Track Your Progress as a Conversationalist
Measuring is how you improve. The hosts’ answer to a listener question about small goals was journaling, the practical tracking kind that reads more like a work log than a diary. Writing out ideas, whether on paper or on a phone, also sharpens how you speak, because you are thinking it, writing it and then saying it.
The method has a few parts.
Write down what you learned about them
After every meaningful conversation, note what you learned about the other person. This forces you to become a better listener, and every good conversationalist is a phenomenal listener who picks up on details that matter to other people. It also keeps you from talking about yourself too much, since your attention is on collecting details.
Keep a gratitude journal
Journaling can feel odd at first, and that reaction is common. A gratitude journal is simple, though. Buy a blank notebook and write a handful of things every morning. If you skip a week, notice whether you start to forget how good things are, because that is a sign the habit is working for you.
Set small goals
Try “This week my goal is to talk to a few strangers I have nothing in common with.” Next week, raise the number a little. The week after, raise it again. Before long, the thing that terrified you will seem absurd. Write the goal down on Monday and tick it off when you have done it.
Turn it into a to-do list
Treat habits like a to-do list. An app on your phone can remind you every morning to text someone you care about, and you swipe it away once it is done. That habit can make a relationship much closer. You can borrow that for work by setting a recurring reminder to check in with a colleague, mentor or client you want to know better.
The summary of the whole practice is to write it down, celebrate the wins, and watch yourself move forward. Progress that lives only in your head goes uncredited, and you keep labeling yourself as awkward while your skills grow without you noticing. It works the same way people love fitness trackers, because once you can see your steps you can see your progress. A written record lets you see that a while back your biggest fear was saying anything to a stranger, and now the same moment feels okay.
How to Handle Awkward Moments Without Spiraling
In Art of Charm Podcast episode 718 (Aug 31, 2018), AJ read a scenario from a listener named Lindsey Marie. She was meeting a guy when he saw what she was wearing and said he was underdressed. She went from excited to convinced he thought she was ugly, and her mind went blank for a good while. Her question was how to stay focused in a conversation when something goes wrong or you get caught off guard, which is the same skill you need in a tense meeting.
Here is the moment where Drama answers her question (01:03:00).
The answer was to own it. Everyone is nervous, and the other person probably feels like he’s under arrest. Here is how to apply that when a remark throws you at work.
Pick your move: a joke or a check-in
You can joke about it by agreeing lightly with the remark and teasing the other person, or you can address it directly with a check-in such as “Quick check, are we good?” Either way, get it out of your head and into the open, take the power away from it, and stop letting it sit there and weigh on you. In a meeting, a light reply or a quick check-in clears the air.
Remember what the other person carries away
Her discomfort made him uncomfortable, and that’s what he walked away remembering. A famous, often misattributed line comes up about people remembering how you made them feel. So aim to leave colleagues feeling relaxed, and let the exact words matter less.
Let the words go
We put so much weight on our words because it is our movie, and we assume everyone is hanging on them. In reality, everyone is living in their own movie and worrying about their own words, so your colleagues have already let yours go. When you replay a comment at night, remind yourself that the other person is probably replaying their own.
Put things on the table early
Put things on the table early in daily life so it becomes a habit, because a worry left to build for weeks usually turns out to be no big deal at all. Calling it out also reminds you that everyone feels out of place sometimes, and sharing that feeling is what bonds people. If something from a meeting is nagging you, send a short message the same day.
Being Authentic on Social Media (Even When It’s Scary)
The hosts pointed out that Drama has a massive social media presence. His advice goes against the usual growth playbook, and it ties back to social anxiety at work too, since your online presence is part of how colleagues and clients meet you before they ever shake your hand.
Be real, and let the followers come
It is easy to get swept up in the noise and ask how to grow the biggest and fastest. Think about quality, and build an actual connection with your following by being authentic to your own story. Share the day as it is, whether it was rough or great, and bring your audience along while you work through something. For a professional profile, that can mean posting what you are learning on a project alongside the polished result.
Post, then step away
Nerves before posting are normal, even for someone with a large following. A good routine is to share the video, put your phone down, and walk away from it. Let the clip land however it lands, and delete it if it falls flat. If you share professional updates, try the same routine. Post, close the app, and return to your work.
The shift started with launching a podcast that was rough in the beginning and then caught on, and the wave of support gave more confidence to start posting video clips. The conclusion is that people are clamoring for realness, and major media has gone formulaic and forced. The same holds in your career, since colleagues respond to a person who sounds like a person.
The Connection Between Social Growth and Personal Development
The key to growth and happiness sits on the other side of the terrible feeling. The tools Drama names are repetition across many podcast recordings, an early wake-up and workouts, and a short meditation each morning.
Pick one this week, such as an earlier wake-up, a short meditation or an extra conversation with a stranger. Practice it every day, then write down how it went, using the same tracking method from the section above. At the end of the week, read your notes back and choose one small adjustment for the next week. Whether you’re dealing with social anxiety or simply want to connect more meaningfully with others, the path involves embracing growth and staying with the challenge.
Genuine interest in others is the starting point for building meaningful relationships that last and support your personal and professional goals.
Where Social Anxiety Management Fits Your Development
Drama starts the day on offense, does the thing despite the discomfort, and owns awkward moments as they happen. Those habits sit behind the progress he describes from podcast recordings he once wanted to escape. Social skills are learnable abilities, and you can use them with anxiety in the room.
If you want to look at how we train this, here is X-Factor Accelerator, the program with a personal starting plan and weekly group coaching.
Related Reading
- How to Stop Being Socially Awkward: A Complete Guide: A guide to social awkwardness, with ways to build confidence in social situations.
- How to Have Deeper Conversations: Beyond Small Talk: How curiosity and active listening turn small talk into a real conversation.
- Social Skills for Introverts: How to Thrive Without Faking Extroversion: Social skills written for introverts, built on the strengths of your own personality.
- How to Build a Social Circle: The Architecture of Intentional Friendship: How conversation skills help you build friendships and a network.
Frequently Asked Questions
Can you be successful if you have social anxiety?
Yes. Drama Pfaff built Young & Reckless, starred on MTV shows, and hosts a successful podcast while still dealing with social anxiety in a lot of situations. The key is pushing through anxiety repeatedly until the discomfort shrinks. His earliest podcast episodes were miserable, and after many recordings he felt comfortable in all his conversations.
What’s the fastest way to get better at conversations?
Practice with real people. Set a goal of talking to a few strangers this week, then raise it each week. Journal what you learned about each person afterward. Repetition and reflection together make your progress visible.
How do you move past small talk?
Start by listening during small talk and treating it as the way in. Pick up on details, like where someone is from, what they care about, and what they’re working on, and ask a follow-up question that goes deeper. Small talk becomes big talk when you’re genuinely curious.
What should you do when your mind goes blank in conversation?
Name it. Say “I lost my place for a second” or “Sorry, I blanked, give me a moment.” This feels catastrophic but makes you more relatable. Then ask the other person a question to shift the spotlight while you regroup.
Does meditation help with social anxiety?
Drama started a short meditation each morning, using an app, after older, more successful friends asked whether he meditates. The benefit was learning to notice when he was losing it and reel it back in quickly. That is one person’s account, and even a small daily practice can build that awareness. Try a few minutes after you wake, and notice whether you catch the early signal sooner in your next meeting.
Want to discover your influence style? Take the Influence Index Quiz. The Influence Index is a short quiz that scores your skills at reading the signals, reading the room, choosing the moment, making it clear and following through. It is quick and shows you where your social skills stand.
