Jeb Blount | Sell Yourself, Your Ideas and Your Work by Mastering These Techniques

Jeb Blount | Sell Yourself, Your Ideas and Your Work by Mastering These Techniques

In today’s episode, we cover the mastery of sales with Jeb Blount. Jeb is the best-selling author of over 13 books and among the world’s most respected thought leaders on sales, leadership, and customer experience. He helps leaders to develop leadership and coaching skills and shows them how to apply a more effective organizational design and cultivate a high performance sales culture.

Sales is often considered a field for extroverts, so why do world-class salespeople consider introverts to have the greatest potential, what can you do as an introvert to become a great salesperson, and what is the biggest challenge introverts face in sales?  

What to Listen For

  • How Jeb Blount get started in sales – 1:06 
  • Can introverts be world-class performers in sales? 
  • What are the three myths about sales? – 5:35 
  • What are the five basic questions people ask themselves about you when talking to you?
  • What do so many people get wrong about being great at sales?
  • What is the greatest gift you can give another human being and why is that gift critical in the world of sales?
  • The one problem introverts have in sales – 9:46
  • What are the two types of listening and when should you use each one?
  • What can you do to stop making assumptions?  – 23:45
  • What is the WAIT acronym and how can you use it to keep yourself in check when interacting with potential customers?
  • Why are moments of silence in conversation so important in sales?
  • Theses traits mean certain failure for people new to sales – 35:00 
  • What is one of the biggest hurdles entrepreneurs face when starting a business for the first time?
  • What can you do to overcome yesterday’s mistakes every day you wake up?
  • Strategies for handling objections – 46:45 
  • What framework can you use for overcoming objections?
  • What is the difference between a good salesperson and a great salesperson?

Introverts aren’t regularly associated with great salesmanship, but as the world evolves, introverts have an edge in sales. People want to be valued and they want to be understood. The more you can listen and ask questions, the better idea you will have about how you can solve their problem. 

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Resources from this Episode

Speaker 1: Well, I'll get back to the art of charm podcast, a show designed to help you communicate with power and become unstoppable on your path from hidden genius to influential leader. We

Speaker 2: Know you have what it takes three to our full potential and each and every week we share with you interviews and strategies to help you transform your life by helping you unlock your X-Factor. Whether you're in sales, project management, engineering medicine, building client relationships, or even looking for love. We got what you need. You shouldn't have to settle for anything less than extraordinary I'm AIJ and I'm Johnny.

Speaker 1: Uh, thank you everyone for tuning in let's kick off today's show today, we're talking to Jeff blunt. Jab is the bestselling author of over 13 books and among the world's most respected thought leaders on sales, leadership, and customer experience. He helps leaders to develop leadership and coaching skills and shows them how to apply a more effective organizational design and cultivate a high performance sales culture. Jab is also the host of a top sales training, podcasts, sales gravy. Welcome to the show. Jab,

Speaker 2: Why don't we just let's go ahead and start with getting your story, how you got started in sales. Well, I got started in sales

Speaker 3: In high school, as crazy as it sounds. I had joined the yearbook in 11th grade because in my senior year, I didn't really want to work that hard. And the yearbook was full of girls and I was really into girls and into sports. So it seemed like a natural thing to do. So I joined the yearbook and that spring, Mr. Ellis, who was our yearbook advisor, came in and said, Hey, you got to go out and sell some ads. So we had to sell ads for the yearbook. We had 30 days a quota of about $300. And I could tell immediately nobody liked to sell ads cause everybody was rolling their eyes and they were, oh my God, I got to sell ads. I didn't know any better. So I went out and I, I lived in a little place called Harlem, Georgia, and which is one stop sign in the middle of nowhere.

Speaker 3: So I went out, went downtown, went to Hall's hardware store, walked in, reached my hand out Mr. Hall, I still ads for the yearbook. Would you like to buy an ad? And he looked at me and reached behind the counter, opened up this big checkbook. And he stroked me a check for an ad. And that was when I fell in love with sales. Like I could go ask people for things and they would give me money. Like I'm sales crack right there. And I ended up going all over that town all over the next town, all over Augusta, Georgia. I sold $3,700 in ads. Came back, sat down with all the girls in the, in the class and me cause I'm the token man at the time. And everybody went through what they sold. 30 days later, most people hadn't even gotten their quota. Most people had gone home, sold an ad to their mom or dad or what have you.

Speaker 3: And then they asked me and I had this water checked. It was like this thick. And I'm like, I sold $3,700 and nobody believed it. And you could just see the like on, in their faces. That's when I really fell in love with sales. Let me, because you can sell stuff and then you can shock people. And then on the way out, the, the, the room Mr. Mr. Ross grabbed me and said, that was amazing. I can't believe you did that. I'm going to make you editor the yearbook. And then I figured out many, if you can sell, you can make it. If you make it rain, people will give you more stuff. So ended up being edited. The yearbook, of course, all the girls at that point then hated me because I wasn't supposed to have the job. Now I'm the boss, but I learned a lot about sales and that's when I fell in love with it. That's when I knew that this was something that I probably wanted to do because it was fun. I go out, I talk to people, I get to know them. I asked for money and they give me money. I, I don't, I can't figure out a better way of doing things. So as I got into sales and I've been doing it ever since.

Speaker 1: And would you consider yourself an extrovert?

Speaker 3: No, I'm I am a total introvert. I'm a, I'm I'm really terrible around crowds of people. I would say terrible. I I'm, I can be good around crosses people. I just walked out of the outbound conference. So we had, you know, a couple of thousand people all together for the first time. And I'm walking around talking to people, shaking hands, but I'm in an environment where I'm on stage. So I'm in that environment. It's my conference, my, you know, our user conference. So I'm totally on stage, totally doing what I like to do, but get sent me to a party. Um, I'm the, I'm the guy sitting in the corner. I don't do really well with, uh, meeting new people or strangers and social environments. I'm great in a sales conversation. And in fact, I wrote a book called salesy Q around about sales specific emotional intelligence, really, because I noticed that there are a lot of really good salespeople that are like that.

Speaker 3: Like, they're not what you would consider to be like these people that go out and they're, they're total extroverts in there. You know, they, the gift of gab, which really isn't a, something that helped you sell anymore. Talking at people doesn't really make people like you any better. So, so I I'm really an introvert. I get my energy from being alone. I'm happy being alone. I really don't need people around me that much, other than my wife, who I love more than anything else in the world. But she's the only person that I really, I can't like physically live without. I like to have her in my life. But other than that, I just don't need people. What I am is an extrovert. If you were to talk about it in a sales conversations, when I'm in a sales conversation, I know what I'm supposed to be doing.

Speaker 3: I'm on onstage. And my good friend, Matthew Pollard, who wrote the introvert's edge would tell you that I'm also very, very good at using a system for selling and a system for engineering relationships and engineering connections in a way that allows me to bend the probability that when I ask for someone to do something that they comply with, the requests that I've made of them. And that's where I think being an introvert really helps you is that I don't get caught up in whether or not people liked me. Cause I don't really care if people like me, I get really caught up in, uh, and finding ways to like them and, and creating emotional connections that bind them to me in a way that makes it almost impossible for them not to say yes when I ask,

Speaker 2: Well, I think you have just squashed three myths right there in that. So let's break each one apart and look at them separately. The first one being the obvious that salespeople need to be extroverts and the introverts cannot be salespeople. So what you have to say about all that, let's go ahead and break that down first.

Speaker 3: Well, let's just think about it like this and every interaction with another human being. There are five basic ones questions that that person is asking about you in that, in that interaction. Now those five questions are both being asked at the conscious level and the subconscious level. So sometimes people don't really know. They just know how they feel about it and that's do I like you. So it's basic for human beings, right? So in a lot of cases, we don't know that we like, or just like a person. I mean, our, I guess our subconscious mind knows that before we know it, but it's, it's something that happens sort of instantaneously. So do I like you? Do you listen to me? Do you make me feel, I feel important. The need for significance, the need to fill up you matter is the most insatiable human need.

Speaker 3: Do you understand me? So you get me and my problems and do I trust and believe you? So when you start thinking about those questions, do I like you? Do you listen to me? Do you make me feel important? Do you get me in my problems with trust and believe you, if we just start with the basic, do I like you? Meaning, you know, dressing, nice being nice, you know, being polite, all of those things matter, but the easiest way to be likable it's just to listen to someone. I mean, if you think about the most unlikable human being in your life as a person standing in front of you talking about themselves, right? So what do a lot of salespeople do? If you're an extrovert, you walk through the door and you're pitching. And a lot of the reasons why you're pitching is because you're an extrovert and you get your energy right from engaging other people.

Speaker 3: And you think that by talking you're in control. And by the way, when you're talking, it makes you feel important, but it's not about you. It's about them. So when you're listening to another person, not only are you having the opportunity to be likable, but you're also making the person feel important and significant, you make them feel significant because by listening to the other person in the conversation, you're giving them the greatest gift that you can give another human being. Now let's just step back. I want you to think about this for a moment because that gift matters in sales. Now this is not an, a personal relationship and a personal relationship. If I'm meeting you at the bar, I'm getting to know you on a podcast. It's a little bit different. We don't have like a core objective, but in sales, there's an objective.

Speaker 3: I'm in the conversation for a reason. I'm not there for my health. I'm there to get you to comply with a request. It could be a micro-commitment, it could be a buying commitment. It could be one of those things. So when I make you feel significant, I give you that gift. When I ask you to make a commitment, you owe me like I tap into the rule or the law of reciprocity by making you feel important. I also create a deep, emotional connection. Like you feel better about me along the way as I'm listening to you. And this is what introverts are really, really good at. We're really great at just letting people talk. So, as I'm listening to you, I'm doing a couple of things. One I'm triggering the self-disclosure loop, which gets you to start talking to me and I'm getting you to tell me your story.

Speaker 3: You're teaching me your language. And so as you teach me, teach me your language as I come back to you, because there's a point where I have to say something like I'm going to build a value bridge from the things that you're telling me to, how I'm going to solve your problem. We are in a sales conversation. When I build that value bridge, I do it in your language, not my language taps into the similarity bias, which makes you feel like you're closer to me, which means that you're going to be more, I'm going to be more trustworthy to you. So, so by what introverts do so well is they're able to listen. They understand that that sales is a language of questions and the understand at the, at the core foundational level, that influences derived not from what you say, but from what you hear.

Speaker 3: So all I'm doing in a sales process is engineering. The, the, the, the relationship I'm I'm, I'm putting myself in a position to build that emotional connection. And I know that when I answer those five questions in the affirmative, it becomes almost impossible for you not to comply with my request. In other words, not to advance through the sales process with me, which is important, or to end up buying from me. And it's, it's all about building that relationship. And that's why introverts overall are fantastic. Salespeople. Now introvert do have a problem. And the problem Johnny is that introverts are afraid to go out and be a little pushy extroverts, have a real advantage when it comes to prospecting and interrupting people and cold calling and where introverts have a real advantage when it comes to empathy and being able to step in someone else's shoes and to be other focused.

Speaker 3: So for most salespeople, we have to balance those two things. If you're an introvert, what we have to do is teach you to be intentional about outcomes, right? You have to be intentional about asking for what you want and about going out and interrupting people. And if you're an extrovert, well, you have to do is teach you to be intentional about empathy, about listening and stepping in other people's shoes and putting away your self-centered need to be the center of attention and put someone else at the center of attention, which means that you're going against everything is happening in your head. Like I want to be, I want to be important. I want to be this, what I want to be telling my story. I want to do all those things. I want to talk. We have to work on both of those things. And it's the balance between the two, because most people are either one or the other people, either outcome driven or they're empathy driven. And we have to do, you have to learn that we have to learn the process. And I know that you teach this in your practice and your podcast, the art of charm. You have to learn how to, to shift and get control or rise above your natural communication style. So you can better connect with other people. But I always begin with those five questions as how I'm connecting as an introvert,

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Speaker 1: Implementing these concepts from the show has enhanced your life. Imagine what a year-long mentorship in our X factor accelerator could do for you. Unlock your X-Factor and become extraordinary. Apply [email protected]. That's unlock your X Will you bring up a great point there because we're not going to talk someone into buying. They are going to talk themselves into buying, and that's where the questions come in and extroverts will often go into pitching. And they also have a belief, a firm belief about the product that they're selling and they're excited. And all of that can work against you in a sales process versus the opposite where the introvert being a great listener, asking great questions. If you're not sharing, you're not relatable. You're not building that trust. So it's a, it's a balance. And I love that. You talk about it as a skill, because I think many who are trying sales for the first time, realize that man, this is really tricky and they don't stick with it long enough to develop that tuning into, okay, this is what I need to speak up. And this is what I need to hold back. And it is like a dance. It's not a formula. It's not a, just follow the script, do X, Y, and Z. And you will get this result. It's a balance. It's the same thing in a conversation with another human that we're trying to build trust with, or a relationship with.

Speaker 2: I want to add to that. That's the second myth that you had mentioned is that this can be learned. You reduced it to a skill and all skills can be enhanced. And before our audience, they hear us talk about this all the time. And they're used to the idea that these things can be broken down and put into systems so that you can enhance them and be better at these. However, for those who are turning in or still are holding on to this idea that these things are innate, they're inherited that you either are, or you're not. Uh, again, if you got to hear it one time, two times, five times, yes, you can get better. You can implement systems in your life that will allow you to get better at these skills. And for each question, there is something different to look for in the interaction to listen for, to see, uh, to let you know whether or not you've achieved this point or not. I mean, if you're, um, asking somebody of delay cue or not, or are you allowing them to feel important, this is going come out in the conversation. There's going to be all sorts of tells that, allow you to know that this has been taken care of that you've handled this. Yeah, I think,

Speaker 3: Uh, I think part of it is about learning to listen. So it's it's and this is, uh, we, we have two types of listening where there's active listening, which is providing someone tangible proof that I'm paying attention to you. That that makes them feel important. Deep listening on the other hand is, is, is listening beyond the words that they're saying, and you can listen to the message, but it's listening with your heart. And I say your eyes, ears, and your heart and your intuition. And then, and this is where it gets really tough for salespeople far too many salespeople live on the surface. So if I'm, if I'm asking you a question and I'm getting your tall, you're getting you talking. And I'm what I'm trying to do is trigger something called the self-disclosure loop. And there's a lot of science behind this is that when people start talking about themselves, they get a dopamine hit to the brain.

Speaker 3: So I call it brain crack. So they're getting, they're getting a, basically a hit of drugs and you can actually see this on MRIs to brain will light up like a Christmas tree. So when that dopamine hit comes, if I can stay out of the way and let you keep talking, what you'll do is get me deeper and deeper and deeper. And you know, this, when people are in a conversation with you and they don't know you are there are there are, they feel like they need to hide something from you, which is true. In most commercial conversations, a salesperson and the buyer, the salesperson is trying to protect their interest. The is trying to protect their interests. So we have a tendency to stay above the water. If we're looking at a high, you know, an iceberg versus getting below the surface, when people start to self-disclose and I can get out of the way they move further and further below the surface.

Speaker 3: And it's there that deep listening really comes into play. Like I've got to watch and listen for the emotional cue, whether I'm on the phone or I'm on a video or I'm in person, it's those emotional cues. If I can ask questions around those, that first of all, tell the person that I really do care about you, and I'm really listening. And I'm paying attention to the things that are important to you, but that's where you find where there's opportunity to help the person. That's where they're hiding things that they're, you know, that they don't want to show you because they feel like that, that it shows their hands and it puts them in a bad position because they think you want to sell them. But the more you can ask about those things and the more they can tell you, that's when they begin to tell you their story, you know, their story and their language is their language of pain and opportunity aspirations.

Speaker 3: It's the things that are irritating them. That's the things that they want to accomplish. It's, it's, it's their emotional language. And if I can listen to that and then come back and talk about that, I can say, you know, AGU told me that one of the things that's really bothering you is when you come in in the morning and you try to get your day started, you've got this, this, this, and this that are in your way. And you're not able to really focus on the things that give you the most joy at work. And that's exactly why I recommend that we do this, because if we do this, I'm going to get you that time back. And I'm going to focus on the things that you don't like to do, where you can focus on the things that you do want to do. If I'm saying that what I'm doing is you're going, wow.

Speaker 3: This person really gets me. And I've had people say that. I mean, and I say that often at a CEO that they go go, you're the only person we've talked to that really understands us. All I was doing was repeating back to the words that he told me. It's not that hard, but if you get, if you're just on the surface and you're just thinking about what you want, you don't do that. You'll you don't tell them that their story. So when we start thinking about this as a skill, and I love what you said, Johnny, it is total skill is the things that we can learn. It does begin with emotional intelligence. Like we have to learn how to sacrifice the things we want now for what we want most. And we have to learn how to be organic in the moment and get out of our own way.

Speaker 3: While at the same time remaining outcome focused on there for a reason, when I leave this conversation, I've got a target next step. And I'm going to ask for that next step, but in the, between the what's happening between if I'm organic and the conversation with you, and you've probably been with salespeople where you can tell, they're thinking about the next question, they're going to ask versus really listening to what you're saying. And you know, how off-putting that is. But if I can build organically in the conversation, it is like this beautiful symphony, like, it's this thing that happens in you, like you were saying, like, you see these things that are happening with it. You can feel it like, you know, when you get into the zone and it, and people just do all the work for you, you really don't have to do that much effort because when they get done, they're like, there's no one else in the world that I want to buy from other than you. I mean, and it's no different than if you're in a, a conversation with another person. There's no one in the world. I want to spend time with more than you. And it's not about what you say. It's about what you hear. And that's what getting this gets missed so much and all of the noise around what makes a good salesperson versus what makes a bad ad salesperson.

Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest mistakes around staying on the surface is making assumptions. And of course in sales, you love the product. You've probably experienced other customers or clients having success with the product. You feel like, you know, all of the roadblocks, all the reasons someone would come to your doorstep through prospecting and looking for your service. And then you start making assumptions as a salesperson. They said, this emotion, oh, I know exactly how they feel. I know exactly what this like, and then you start putting your frame on them. And of course, we're not taking a deep, we're not listening and unpacking. What's really going on there because at first blush, like you said, many people don't want to show their hand. And if you just stick with their first answer and you make assumptions based off that first answer, you're going to take the car off the road.

Speaker 1: And you're not gonna be able to get to the destination of actually closing the deal versus making far less assumptions coming in with a completely blank slate. Not assuming that you know what their problem is and the emotions tied to it. And for many that means setting aside your own experience, right? Many of us will start a sales job because this service helped us. And we love it so much. And now we want to advocate and we want to sell it. And that's a real difficult balance, especially for people starting out in sales. So for someone who maybe is making those assumptions, or as quick to judge, do you have a process or do you have something that you use in your repertoire to get you to slow down and dig deeper to get to that bottom of the iceberg?

Speaker 3: Yeah, simply it would begin with process. So we know that. And if you follow a step-by-step process that your outcomes are going to be very predictable. So what happens when you're, when you make assumption, you say, why, why do I need to do this? Because they already know this. Why don't we need to ask them questions about what they want? Cause I already know what they want. So if I, if that's the case, why don't just say, hello, want to buy. And that's what a lot of sales people do. Hello, when to buy. And that can work. If you've got a high velocity product where you're talking to millions of people. I mean, if you were sitting in, for example, times square and you ask a hundred thousand people during the day, if they wanted to buy something, somebody going to say yes to you.

Speaker 3: So, and you can play the game that way. It's just a low probability game. So the, the, the key thing is understanding that you need to go through the process and, and the, and the process is I connect with you as a human being. I begin by asking you questions. I learn about you. So I, I typically want to ask, start with a big, broad open-ended question. That's easy for you to answer that you like answering. So I make you feel good about it. Then I need to do discovery. I need to understand everything about you. Then I need to formulate a case. So the case is building a set of solutions, a value bridge, and all the reason I bridge and bridge from where you are to where you want to go. I'm going to do that using your language, not mine. And then I got to ask, and then I'm going to deal with objections and questions and, and fear and all the things that come when you're asking a human being to make a change, because we're all basically risk averse.

Speaker 3: The safety bias is strong and every human being, and then I'll deal with I'll deal with down the road. I'll deal with negotiation. So that's the key, but, but we have to also begin with like something you just said, like quit making assumptions about other people. Like if we just got down to be a human being, I work with military recruiters. I work with military recruiters in every branch of the, the, of the military. And I wrote a book called fanatical, military recruiting, and we, we teach something called recruiting ETQ. So if you think about your military recruiter, you're gung ho this for a reason, it changed my life. I love this. So you're sitting down with a 17 year old in the military. And a lot of in the lot of the recruiting schools is teaching the recruiter to go out and tell their story.

Speaker 3: And I've been at recruiting college, which was military recruiters who are doing that. And I'll show them how to flip the squares script, stop talking about you, ask them about them. And then all you do is as I'm talking to HR, for example, or I'm talking to Johnny and Johnny saying, well, you know, the reason that I want to join the military is this. I go, you know what? That was one of the reasons that I joined the military, because I was just like you sitting in your shoes. I remember not knowing exactly what I wanted to do, but I wanted to be more than I am the day, or our ha says, you know, I'm really looking to take care of my family. I want to make sure that I've got enough financial resources down the road. And I would say, you know, that was really important to me as well.

Speaker 3: Or another person says, you know, I want to get a college education. And I go, yeah, that's one of the things that the military did for me. I've got a master's degree because I joined the military versus showing up and throwing up all over them about your story, that they don't care about. Your story only matters in context of their story. And the, that that I avoid being, you know, being assumptive is two things. One as a remind myself, to be curious, like set aside, all of, all of my, you know, my S my, you know, the things that I believe my assumptions or whatever it says, set it aside, suspend judgment, and just be curious, like, cause I walked through somebodies plant and go, how come you do it that way? Or why are you doing it like that? Or why aren't you like, I know why you're doing it, but I'm asking the question.

Speaker 3: So you can tell me, because when you're telling me and I'm listening, you love me. And that's, I just know that work. So it doesn't make a difference. What the answer is. If you're talking you're happy and if you're happy and I'm the person that's making you happy, you're probably going to buy from me because you're going to buy me before you buy my product. That's just simple. So I do that. The other thing I do is I use this little acronym called weight. And when I'm in situations where I, I, my ego gets a little bit ahead of me and I feel like I want to tell my story, or I feel like I want to pitch you on something. I have that on a card. I usually have it like on a notebook or I have it on my iPad, or I have it in front of me and wait stands for, why am I talking? And I, and I just have that in a flash it in front of myself, just to keep myself focused on if there's not a reason for my mouth to be moving, it needs to be shut. Because as soon as I start talking, the buyer that I'm working with turns off and so do my ears.

Speaker 1: Well, you bring up such a great point. Many, especially early in their sales development, avoid the long silence. They even call it the awkward silence and they want to fill it with their own voice and keep the process moving because it's forward momentum, but seasoned salespeople understand that the longer you can hold that silence and let the prospect fill in the awkward with what's really going on. You actually set a stronger frame. And I've been on many calls where I just pause and pause and it feels endless. And all of a sudden the prospect now divulges, why they're really on the call. What's really going on. And they'll even say, you know, I've never said this to anyone else. And being honest with you, it's a little shocking, but in many of their conversations are other people filling the silence, speaking for them, filling in those gaps, making assumptions, which of course doesn't lead to the sale.

Speaker 3: So Asia, let me, I want to break that down real quickly, because what you just said is so brilliant and so profound. Everybody needs to slow down and pay attention to this. So I talked earlier about something called the self-disclosure loop, which is neurological. When you're talking or bragging about yourself, it makes you feel good because you get a dopamine hit to the pleasure centers of the brain. And that loop matters because the more you just self-disclosed, the more that loop will continue. If you step on the loop by interrupting someone, or by, by telling your story, you'll turn it off. So this, this, this pausing piece, like you said, it feels like it's forever. There are moments when you think your heart is going to come out of your chest while you're waiting. So you're sitting there count counting. Like you count, you count you count.

Speaker 3: Then when they fill in the silence, what they typically fill it in with, and you, you glossed over this, but they fill it in with the information that they weren't going to tell you. And they told themselves they weren't going to tell you while they walked through the door and they can't help themselves because this neurological loop is so powerful. That in that moment you sit there and you said this, I'm not going to tell you. I wouldn't tell anybody else has been able to tell you, they cross the TMI zone. So if you're like, and you can do this, when you're interviewing someone, my wife does this at parties. Like she's a brilliant listener and we'll be at parties and I'll, I can catch her. I'll watch her. And I know there are people there's some ways to like, they just dropped a bomb.

Speaker 3: And later on, like, I'm going to get all the juice on this thing, because they're like, I know I shouldn't be telling you this, but I'm going to tell you anyway. And you've been on the other side of that AGA. So you've been there, Johnny. I know you've been there. I've been there where there's someone who's listening to us and we'll just go back to the art of charm. Like, there's just something about them. And we just lean into it. And then suddenly these things start coming out of our mouth. And our brain says, no, don't say that, but you can't help it. Like you just keep talking and you keep talking, you keep talking and, oh, by the way, if you're in sales, you talk yourself out of the deal. If you're on a date, you talk yourself out of the date, right? If you are, you know, in a room with people, you talk yourself out of a friendship and people start moving away from you, but you can do the other thing on the reverse side. And that little bit of silence that pause is it's such a big influential pull that if you can master it and get good at it, oh man, the world will just open itself up to you.

Speaker 1: So powerful. And I love that. You mentioned that on a date or even in a social realm, we use that vacuum to our advantage. So many people label that silence is awkward, but the most powerful communicators understand that silence actually strengthens your communication. It's a stronger frame. It leads to confidence. If we label it awkward, then naturally we're going to want to avoid silence. We're going to want to fill in the gap. And of course, we're going to start making rookie mistakes that as you said, talk us out of the end result that we both want. And I love that because I've had that exact phrase, the TMI, like, why am I telling you this? They will even judge themselves after they've shared it. And that's how, you know, you got to the goal because you are exactly right. Let's be honest. And we can talk about how much the sales process has changed, but buyers, right now, they are expecting these conversations to go a certain way.

Speaker 1: And of course, they're preparing themselves before that call, before that visit from you. And they know going in, these are my objectives. This is what I want to share. This is what I don't want to share. And if you can flip the frame and get them to a place where now they don't even know why they're sharing, but as you said, nature is working its course, and it's getting them to open up. That's where the gold is. That's where you can really work through the pain, the real emotional reason they need to buy. I want

Speaker 2: To add to that as well. Um, there's something Jed that you mentioned earlier as the, when you're, if it's a cell, then you know what the objective is. You're trying to get somebody to purchase something. And then other situations are quite different. If you were at a networking event and you're looking to make a new contact, okay, well, that's going to be your goal. If you're looking to, to set up a meeting with somebody, to pitch them at another time, that's the goal. If you're looking to get this person's phone number, so you could ask them out, that's the goal, high value people are going to be quick to understand what they want out of this interaction at all times, so that they can begin to set up a system to reach their goal. Because if you're just staring at the goal, you don't know where you are.

Speaker 2: You're you have an expectation that cannot be met because you don't have a system that gets you there. And one of the things which is quite the same, well, we have to equate to what we do for our audience for our clients is you do have a goal when you're at this networking event, you have to commit to it. So then we can begin to implement a process for you to get there. If you're in the dating realm. Well, of course you want to, you want dates and you have to commit to that idea so that we can begin to put in the processes for you to get the dates. And I've, and I find the most difficult part there for, for our clients is to get comfortable with this, this goal, because they much like new salespeople. They don't think they're, they don't feel they're worth that goal, that this is for them, that they have earned this.

Speaker 2: And it's first getting them to commit. Guess I deserve this. This is what I want. And this is where I'm going. Just like the sales person. If he's picking up that phone is we are going to make this sell. I deserve to make those cell because I'm putting in the work. And, but once you can nail down that there is a goal in mind and that you are of worth that goal will. Now we can begin implementing the tiny steps. And I, you know, it's interesting in hearing you talk because you you've laid out the system that is going to reach the goal for yourselves folks. When, when I hear the, uh, do you like me, uh, make you feel important, building trust. Those are the, the, the steps that are going to reach that cell. Yeah.

Speaker 3: And I think he said, you talk about objective. So for me, what I explained every salesperson, before you walk into any conversation, you need to understand what your target next step is. It could be an appointment. It could be an advanced to say, have more discovery. It could be leveling up to a decision maker. It could be closing the deal, but if you don't know your target next step, how can you explain it to them? And I'm usually pre-framing target next step at the very beginning, when I'm sitting down with you, I might say, so, Johnny, here's what my objective is today. I want to learn about this, this, this, and this. And if all of this makes sense for you and me, then our next step will be this will that work for you? And you say yes. So I'm getting commitment and consistency moving into that next step, right?

Speaker 3: So I want that commitment going in, but I'm telling you what the next steps going to be early on. And I think sometimes we hide that from the person that we're dealing with now that might not always be an appropriate thing. If you're like on a, like you're meeting someone at a mixer and you go, listen, I'm gonna have a conversation with you. And my target next step is that you're going to be going on a date with me next week. I mean, that may, that may come off a little bit forward. Now there are people who can pull that off, cause it can do it in a way that will make the other person laugh. And it'll work. People like me who are introverts should probably stay away from that type of a trial close the early part of a date. But the, but the, I think that the, I think you have to know that and get that right part of the system.

Speaker 3: And you said something else, Johnny, that I think is so important. I say this all the time and a little bit of a different way, but I liked the way that you said that you have to, you have to feel like you deserve to be there. And the way that I know I belong there. And, and I was just coaching a group of salespeople yesterday on this who were going through their final presentations, you know, that you belong there, you know that you deserve to get what you came for because you went through every step in the sales process, you took the time to listen to them. You took the time to put away your own needs for their needs. You did discovery, you went back and built a business case. And now you're sitting here presenting it. This is your time to talk, right?

Speaker 3: You're presenting the final case. You earned that. And they know that when you show up and you're winning relaxed, assertive, and confident, the most powerful emotional foundation for a salesperson in that moment, they're going to lean into that. They're going to buy from you. In fact, I was told one of the sales guys yesterday. I said, you know, here's the thing. Most of the stuff that you said was just crap, but I'm still buying from you because I didn't hear any of it because all I saw was I want to buy from you because you are that good in the presentation, because you were so confident about what you were saying and thinking, and it, and I could feel it. And that mattered more than the substance of what you were saying. Not, not that I want you to go in and, and, and say inane things to your buyer, but you gotta realize how important that is, but earning it, doing the work in advance matters.

Speaker 3: And that's why salespeople who show up and say, hello, want to buy? They get in a lot of trouble and they, and they're insecure and insecurity and passive and weakness as a sales professional is certain death because human beings are incredibly predictable. We run right through that. If you don't feel like you earned it, you're going to lose. And by the way, if you approach it in that manner and skip through all the steps, you're either going to be insecure. Are you going to be arrogance? And arrogance is, you know, is a complete disregard for the person that you're dealing with. And they're going to see right that through the right through that too. And they're not going to buy from

Speaker 2: You. Well, this is where I start to question people who seem to have a fear of rejection, because it could be rejection people don't like to be told. No. And especially if you take it personally, that it sucks. However, there's also the fear of success. What if they say, yeah, well now you have to show up and perform a service. Now you have to show up and be the show, your self worth on this date. And that is, can be a major block. If you don't enjoy the product that you're selling, whether it's a service or whether it's you, well, then you're going to be afraid of them saying yes. So we have to determine, is it the, is it the rejection that you're really afraid of? Or is it that you don't believe in your product? You don't believe in yourself. You don't believe in what you're selling, because if that's the case, that's a different resolution that we need to work on rather than rejection.

Speaker 3: That point that you just made, prob probably is actually, we'll just say it is a big issue for say, solo entrepreneurs, people who are building their own business. People like me who are authors and speakers. I found early on when I was building this business and I started this business in 2006 that I struggled to sell me. So when I was sitting down with someone, I would, you know, I'm offering my keynote or my coaching. You know, it's me that first of all, when they reject that they're rejecting me. And that's very much like dating. Like you're dating, they're not rejecting an idea. They're rejecting you. So, so I felt that it went to, I selling a product like I'm selling a product for somebody never even bothers me because the product is the, is the inanimate object, but it's me. And then the other part of that is, and this is like deep down inside of you.

Speaker 3: And I'm, I'm going to say this as an honest way for you. So in a more transparent, but there are days even now with all the success that I've had in this business, all the success I've had building and growing and all the money that people will pay me to show up and do a keynote, which is just, you know, it's mind blowing what, you know, what people will, will, will, you know, people will bring me in and pay me to stand on their stage and talk with people. I get paid to talk if you think about it. But there are that, those moments when there's like a really big deal or a really big company, or a really big event, people want you to come into and you're sitting down talking with them, there's little voice inside of you that says, okay, they're going to buy you.

Speaker 3: And then they're going to find out you're a complete and utter fraud. And, and you have to like, that's one of those things. You have to lift yourself above because you're doubting yourself. And when you doubt yourself, it creates insecurity. And because human beings are predictable and the way that they deal with insecurity, it's a really, really bad move in. Anything that you do, but it's there. But I think that goes back to back to emotional intelligence. We don't get to choose our emotions. They happen without our consent. So whether it's fear of rejection or whether it's fear of success or whether it's fear that people are going to find you out. And, you know, you doubt yourself in the moment, which is just normal. And you, I say that to people who see me on stage, and they're like, how could you ever say anything like that?

Speaker 3: You're the most COVID person in the world. I'm like, you have no idea what's happening in my head when you're not around. You know, when you're, when you're in those situations, what you can choose is not the, the emotion you can choose your response and your response is can I rise above this emotion and then deal with this person in a way that I know gives me influence in that moment, a know, allows me to persuade them in that moment. I know that gets them to lean into me and feel emotionally connected with me in that moment. So that goes back to those frames to a, like you do, you listen to me. Do you make me feel important to you get me in my problems with trust and believe you? So my insecurity doesn't matter if my mouth is shut the way that I feel about myself, my fear doesn't matter if my mouth is shut, even by the way, my own communication styles.

Speaker 3: So we all have a different style of communicating my communication style, connected to their communication style. Doesn't matter. I don't have to flex to them if my mouth is shut. So if they're talking, they don't care. What my style is. They just feel good because they're talking. That's what we have to remind ourselves of in those situations is that in a lot of cases, we're just playing tricks on ourselves. I don't know, through your coaching practice, that you work with people through that, teaching them how to rise above those emotions. And I just say this to your audience, just so you know, you know, I like, I'm a human being. I, I have those doubts. I'm, you know, I'm laying in bed last, last Wednesday night, we just came off like the greatest day of our life. That you've never been to the outbound conference, but this is an event like none other.

Speaker 3: We have 135 feet of screens and pyrotechnics, and the greatest rock show for salespeople on earth. I just got off the stage. People are clapping, screaming, hugging, taking selfies. I mean, I'm signing books to my, my hand hurts and I'm laying in bed that night, sitting there going, I could have done better at this. I could've done better at that. You know, I kind of screwed this up. I said that I made this mistake. I'm rolling through those things. I can't help it. It just happens. The question that you have to ask yourself is when you wake up the next morning, is that going to change your behavior, right? Or is it going to be something that fuels you to rise above it, get your confidence in your hands and be better than you were the day before. That's a choice that you make, you get to make that choice. Nothing else gets to make that choice for you. So that's why I look at the world of sales. I love it because it's all choices. You choose your actions, you choose your responses and you choose your mindset. And those are the only three things that you can control. And I choose to control those things. And you

Speaker 1: Laying in bed, having those fears is because you care, that's a good sign. And I know any of our clients come to us being like, I want to be fearless. I don't want that voice. I don't want that doubt. I don't want that fear. And that's just not true. You've are grade because you actually care. You care about delivering that talk you about the impact of everyone in that room. And that's why you, afterwards, you go, I could have done better, but going in with the mindset of like, I just want to overcome all of that fear. I don't want to hear that voice. I don't want to deal with that. That's actually a very ineffective strategy to managing those emotions. We need to move those emotions from the driver's seat of the car, to the passenger seat of the car. We've all been there with the backseat driver, telling us the best exit to take in the shortest route.

Speaker 1: But you still have the steering wheel, your still driving the car where we get into trouble is when we let the fear drive the car. And for many in sales, listen, rejection is a part of it, but rejection is a part of life. It's such a valuable lesson to take out of sales experience. Even if later in your career, you don't do sales. I encourage everyone to try it out because it puts you in a position to manage that fear, slide it to the passenger seat. And as you said, manage what you can control, which is your reaction. It's not about removing the voice. It's about managing what you do when that voice appears.

Speaker 2: The other thing is about learning how those controls when you're in the driver's seat work. And that is exactly why we created our unstoppable program. It puts you in the driver's seat and it allows you to understand how to use the controls so that you can overcome and rise above those emotions to, to perform at the level that you need to be warming up, to get the results that you

Speaker 3: Need to get. And I think we, we sometimes, you know, there's, there's no, there's no, I don't think real win and glorifying rejection because it sucks. Nobody wants to be rejected. It feels bad, but we also don't understand what were the role rejection plays in our lives as human beings. It's a double-edged sword rejection in the sensitivity. Rejection is one of the things that allows human beings to operate with other human beings. You know, where the line is drawn. So th th that fear of crossing the line helped you build better relationships and not do stupid things. We've all seen people who they say this authentic I'm being authentic, right? So I'm going to be authentic, but authenticity, without regard to your audience is just arrogance. And we don't like arrogant people. We kick arrogant people out of our group. So, so part of rejection is one side of the sword is that it shows you where the lines are drawn and it makes it easier to deal and get along with other people.

Speaker 3: The other side of it is it holds you back because we know the truth is, is that almost everything that is great in life lies on the other side of that fear, the fear of something happening to us. Now, a lot of times we think thinking about fears, like fear of death, but death is one of our top fears. Our biggest fear is rejection. In fact, we fear rejection more than we fear dying. And we see that working with the military and military guys will tell you all day long. I would rather go out and have somebody shoot at me than they make a cold call all day long. So we, we understand as sales and by the way in life, anything we want, whether it's in your career, whether it's a relationship with someone, whether it's, uh, you know, whether it's getting funding for your business, whatever the situation may be, your job is to go out and find fear and bring it home, find rejection and bring it home.

Speaker 3: You got to go do that. So you also have to recognize that what you feel is natural. It's right. It's supposed to be there, your job as a human being and what you teach and your unstoppable program. I like that is how do you get, I like, I love the analogy of the car. Like, how do you get control of the car and steer that fear in a way that gives you strength versus causes you to back down and, and in, in that you're allowed to be authentic and transparent and a real human being without letting those things hold you back. And this idea that, you know, nobody needs to ever see that there's any fear, anything in me, I, you know, there are people who live their life that way. I just don't think it's a really good way to build a coalition of people around you, who care about you and are willing to support you and sometimes pick you up and push your back in the game. When you fall down, wake, it all gets pushed back in the game.

Speaker 1: I think one of the outcomes of that avoidance of fear or the fear of rejection playing out is especially with young sales professionals, looking to immediately figure out how to handle objections and skip over all those other important steps of the sales conversation before any objection arises. And we hear this time and time again from our audience and our clients who are getting started in sales. What are those magic words to overcome? I can't afford this, or I don't have time. And I would be willing to guess that your book on objections is probably one of the bestselling ones, because when it comes to sales training, that's what everyone wants. I'd want to avoid that rejection. I want to close more sales. And of course the roadblock that we all feel is it's objections. And I need to handle these objections to be an impactful sales person. Number one, what's your perspective on objections and number two, if you are at that place in your sales career, where you've handled the other steps in the conversation, and you are still hearing objections, what are your strategies around handling objections.

Speaker 3: So in the book objections, I take a more of a psychological approach to it. So rather than giving you a bunch of cheesy scripts that you can use to get past something, I begin with the origin of the fear of rejection, where it comes from and, and how it impacts you. And also on the other side of the table. So what are the, what are the things that cause your buyer to be resistant to you and create rejection? So, I mean the best, the best objection you get is the one that didn't happen because you were so good in the rest of the process that they just said, let's do business. Like you said, earlier, agency, they just do the work for you. And they bought, they said, why don't we get started? And that happens when you do everything right? So there's a lot of things that sales people do because they don't understand how human beings work that create this resistance.

Speaker 3: One of those is skip all the steps in the sales process and go, hello, want to buy when you do that, you're going to get, well, it costs too. Cause they got nothing else to compare you from. You know, you didn't do anything else or you get to the point where you're trying to build your case, but you didn't do deep enough discovery. It was all shallow. You stayed above the surface and you didn't get any information. They go, you know, I'm really concerned about this, but you don't really know, understand them enough to say minimize their fear by saying, you know, I heard you saying that to me. You'd also told me that this, this, this, this, and this were important to you. And so I think that even though this is there, would it make sense that these things are probably more important to you than this little thing that's holding you back and they go, yeah, you're kind of right about that.

Speaker 3: That's just human beings. Like they they're, they're, they're covered up our being, being risk averse. And they'll say those things. So first of all of objections, the key is follow the process. You can't separate the sales process from the sales objection. You've got to do both. The next thing I want to sort of, we bring in, especially with new salespeople is they get an objection at the early part of the, of the sales call. Like, they'll go, well, I wonder what your prices are, your prices. Hi. They haven't even done any discovery. This is called a red herring, right? So they're chasing something. That's not an objection when, by the way, then they bring it up over and over again so that they get past the Raider and they bring it back and put it on the table. So instead of skipping past the red herring, ignoring it, they just keep talking about it or their entire sales conversation, just dives into an abyss because of that.

Speaker 3: So we teach a little, a little framework for dealing with this, um, called P a I S pause, acknowledge, ignore, or save. So when you get hit by an early objection, before you cover the sales process, what a new salesperson will do is attack it. What I do is I just pause for a second and I acknowledge it. And here's how I acknowledge it. So let's you say, say something like, well, I I'm, I'm just telling you right now, I'm not buying anything today. Like bill you're hearing people say that I'm not signing anything today. The new sales person takes it as an objection to me, it's just a red herring. It's just the person saying that. Cause they don't know what else to say. And you'll find that in every other human relationship you have, they'll just say things either because they think that's what they're supposed to say.

Speaker 3: Or they all know what else to say, but to you, it feels offensive. So I just write it down that right now there's a smart board behind me, but I'll do it again. Smart board is if I'm doing a discovery call like this, I'll write it down the smart board so they can see it. Like I write it in big ways, but I acknowledge it. And then I go, is there anything else? Usually there's not. And then I'll do it. And then I nor it. So almost Unsane 90% of the time I do the matrix move. You remember in the matrix where he was like, suddenly could see the matrix, you see the O's in the ones. And then when they started like shooting at him, he would go like that. So I just go shoot and I just let it go right by show.

Speaker 3: And I just go back into my conversation and I start with a question, I'll say, oh, you'll say, blah, blah, blah, blah, same thing a day. Not saying anything a day, anything else you go? No, I go tell me a little bit about yourself. So I'll just ask you a big open-ended question to get you talking. Most of the time, it never comes back again. Now there are times when, what they say is important. So they'll say something like, well, one of the, I want to make sure that we cover is that we have some environmental compliance issues in our particular industry that we're going to have to make sure that we get covered. I'll write that down. Anything else? And then I don't need to deal with that right now. This is the wrong time I need to get into the next step. The discovery call the deal with that.

Speaker 3: When I get into discovery call, I'm going to put that potential objection back on the table. But on my terms, I'm going to say, you told me that you had some compliance issues. Talk to me about that. I'm going to say if I, if I see them grimace on something, I'm gonna say that looks like it's really important to you. Let's put this on the table. Let's talk about that. Cause I don't want to avoid issues that could become reject objections. I want to deal with them while you know, early on while I can deal with them and I can, and I can get past them without it stopping me from getting to an objective. Like it's not a roadblock, it's just a conversation. So you just have to learn how to manage things in that moment. And one more thing around objections, we teach a really, really simple framework and we can call it different things.

Speaker 3: We called a ledge. It's what neuroscientists call the magic quarter. Second that gets your executive brain in charge of your emotional brain. So your little amygdala, I call mine Amy's and they're going whoop. You know? So I I'm able to, to, to get the neocortex going, okay, everybody look, here's the deal. They just said they don't have enough time. They're not kicking you out of the cave. They're not killing you. They're not rejecting you personally. They're a little busy right now. Let's see if we can get past that. So I'll use something like alleged. And I might say, I might say Johnny, that's exactly what I call it because I figured you would be busy today. And all I want to do is find a time that's more convenient for you. How about Thursday at two? And so the ledge, that's exactly why I called to say that every single time and I can do this.

Speaker 3: Like you can throw any objection at me and I'll, I'll, I'll use the ledge. And all I need is that little bit of time because my, my logical brain knows exactly what to say. Unfortunately, it's sitting in the back seat right now because I'm calling somebody and I got to get it in the front seat. And the ledge gives me that just a bit of a moment for it to snatch the emotions and go get back here. I'm in control. And when you master that process, it gets really easy. You just memorize something. You say every single time you get that, that reflex objection, that doesn't work so well in a big buying commitment. Objection. But in that case, I'm just relating to you. I'd say something like, you know, actually that makes perfectly good sense to me. If I were in your shoes, making the decision this big, I'd probably want to talk to my wife as well.

Speaker 3: Now, all I'm doing is just relating to you as another human being. And then I'll come back and say, so, so other than talking to your wife, what else is worrying you about the proposal I just gave you? So now it can begin to isolate and clarify what the actual issue is, but that, that simple relate statement acts as a ledge. That gives me something to hold on emotionally, get my logical brain back in, charge my executive brain back in charge. So now I can think, and I can deal with it from a rational standpoint versus an emotional standpoint. That was a lot that I just unpacked right there. But that's how I deal with rejection or protections.

Speaker 1: So helpful though, because what you exactly talked about, I think trips up a lot of beginner or average salespeople that they just take that objection at its word and immediately stop and try to reorient instead of unpacking it a little bit further. And again, that objection has to be explained with some rationale from the prospect of, well, this is why I'm feeling this way. Maybe I read your prices are too high. Maybe I saw a Yelp review or someone felt cheated, but if you just go and attack the price or attack the time, you're not actually getting to the underlying that bottom of the iceberg, that's really the objection. It's not the surface level. And as you said earlier, let's be honest. So we could, this leads to my next question. You know how much the sales process has changed throughout your career? You know, there are no tricks and tactics that potential customers and clients haven't seen or heard.

Speaker 1: We've all been sold to at this point in almost every avenue or area of our life. So you're not going to come up with some magic, three word, objection, crusher. That's naturally going to get the prospect to buy. We have to acknowledge, we have to relate to it. We have to normalize that objection. So they feel safe going back to your final point, which is they have to trust you. And if you just come at this with a stupid script around handling objections, that's destroying that trust. That's literally telling the prospect that I don't really care about how you're feeling in this moment. I have the solution for you that I'm going to force on you.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I, I like what you said about normalize. You can say no, we're good. Relate would be, I totally get where you're coming from. You know, this is the question that almost every single person that does business with me asks before they take the next step, simple social proof, like everybody's in your shoes. I get that. So I think that we, we, we have to recognize with objections. You said something really important. You gotta understand it. You gotta calm down. And there aren't magic words and there never have been magic words. I mean, even in the days, cause I remember back in the eighties, somebody taught me that Ben Franklin close and that dates me bad. So no body, I used to have a mullet. I did wear a members only jacket and yes I was valley girl with the, you know, valley girl guy with the collar pop.

Speaker 3: So I did that, but we did the Ben Franklin close. It didn't work in 1985. It didn't work in 1975 and it didn't work in 1965. I mean, it worked with really stupid people, but in work with anybody else, what really worked and it always worked was authentic human communication, connecting with people, doing your homework, putting in the work, John, like you said, earning, earning the right to ask and understanding what people wanted and connecting the dots and the great salespeople, the great salespeople from go back all the way into the, you know, the early part of last century when we were first building professional selling as a, as a, as a, as a profession or a, you know, a business, uh, I don't know, track inside of organizations. I think NEC first are doing that. Dale Carnegie, all those guys that did this early 1920s and 19 to, and the teens, the best salespeople then, or the best sales salespeople now.

Speaker 3: I mean think about it. W when a Dale Carnegie, right, how to win friends and influence people in 1920 something, and it is still as relevant today as it was then. So tell me what changed. Nothing changed. There's things like what keeps you up at night? Things else, people say that changes, but that's just because we'll find a line that really works for a little bit of time. And then we just abuse it until it doesn't work anymore. But the art of selling the science of selling the science of connecting with other people, and I say, it's an art and science, because it is understanding the human beings are predictable. If you understand how brains work, you have a lot of opportunity to influence people and to connect with people and, and get people to love you. And like, you want to buy from you.

Speaker 3: I wrote a book called people, buy you. So, uh, you know, so I get this, you know, people want, people want to connect with you that didn't change. And people always like what changed in sales? Okay. So we have more channels, more ways to connect with people than ever before. I think that, that we are more in tune with, we want people, we want to be around people who are authentic. It didn't happen because cells changed. That happened because society changed. We went from, you know, the, the 1950s sitcoms where mom and dad are sleeping in separate single beds, you know, to the day where you turn on TV and like, you know, pretty much anything goes, we've moved to we, we dig it. Yeah. When people are real, you can even see that, like you post a video online. And if your video is scripted, people don't watch it.

Speaker 3: And if it's something that's unscripted, then people watch it. I don't know why sometimes they're stupid, but they watch them. I, you know, I, I'm always amazed at things. I post online that go viral versus things that don't go viral. And I haven't figured out the formula, but there's probably authenticity in there at some point that makes that work. Right. So what we've, what we've learned is that the, the, the art here is being a human being, being real understood that relationships are engineered. They are not something that just happens organically. Now, sometimes that happens. I've been on trains in Europe where I've met a person and become best friends overnight. Very rare that that happens, but it happens. But in most cases, when, as you said, Johnny, there's an outcome that's involved in the conversation, the process of getting to that outcome. And it is in building that relationship is a series of steps that you have engineered.

Speaker 3: You have created the environment that allows that, that relationship that feels organic to happen. And if you understand that and you get that, you win. And if you think that this is all random, and there are people out there that just like, suddenly they wake up and Johnny, you said that they just wake up and they're like the greatest. They just connect with people in a unique way. If you think that then hallelujah, but you're wrong. It doesn't work that way. And I can tell you from my own world, I am on a lifelong journey to be a better connector and a better human being and build relationships with people. And I screw it up every single day of my life. And I try again and working on the skill and it is a skill.

Speaker 1: Now you brought up such a great point because our neuroscience, our biology has not changed, and there's not a new part of the brain. That's, uh, come into existence over the last hundred years that we now have to figure out and crack. The neuroscience has stayed. The same culture has shifted. So as a salesperson, you should definitely pay attention to culture and see what people are responding to and interacting with and what they're following. That's important, but it's not about changing the system or the process every few years and updating it. Like we update our iPhone the way we go through emotions to rational decision-making and the way we will rationalize our emotional decision-making has been the same. When Dale Carnegie pen his book to when Ben Franklin came up with his clothes, it's been the same. It's not changed. And if you're constantly chasing new tips and tactics and strategies and hacks and scripts, you're going about it, the wrong way, the greater you can understand the psychology and how humans make decisions and rationalize the pain that they're going through to come out the other side and think about where they want to be.

Speaker 1: That's when you really understand handling objections, the sales process and everything else that goes into being a fantastic salesperson. Now, as we close, we have some good sales people in the audience that want to become great. What in your mind is the difference between a good salesperson and a great salesperson.

Speaker 3: So this is going to be completely off subject. So I'm going to, we've been talking about building relationships and sales processes. Here's the truth. The truth is the difference between good salespeople and great salespeople are great. Salespeople understand a really simple premise about sales. And that is that the pipe is life. You have to prospect every day, every day, every day, because nothing that AIJ and Johnny, and I've been talking about matter a hill of beans. If you don't have opportunities to sell in your pipeline, which means that you have to prospect, you have to go out and prospect every day, every day, every day, every day, because the number one reason why you will fail in sales is you have an empty pipeline. And the number one reason you have an empty pipeline is that you are not prospecting because you are afraid to go out and interrupt people. The truth is, and the truth will never change. The more people you talk with, the more you will sell. Never forget that

Speaker 1: Beautiful way to end it. Our last question of all of our guests is what is your X factor? What is that thing that makes you extraordinary and successful at what you do?

Speaker 3: The number one thing is this. I'm not the smartest person in the world by far. I'm certainly not the best salesperson by far. I'm not the best authored the best speaker. In fact, I'm not a really great speaker at all. I'm just, I hack at it, right? I'm not the best business owner, not the best entrepreneur. I'm far from the best parent or husband. I'm not good at really anything. But the one thing that I'm good at is hustle. Nobody will ever outwork me ever. So I don't care how good you are. I don't care. What's going on. I'm like the little tortoise behind you. You're going to take a break. You're going to rest. I will never rest. I will beat you every single time, because I will outgrow mind every day. You will never out hustle me

Speaker 1: What a beautiful message to everyone who's going from. Good to great. In terms of sales, or maybe even not realizing that you are selling is guess what you are every day of your life, whether you're in a traditional sales role or not, and hustle wins the day. Thank you for joining us, Jeff.

Speaker 4: Thank you. [inaudible]

Speaker 1: I got to say Johnny talking to Jeff has me fired up to hop on the phones and I even took notes. I now have a post-it note with weight on my computer screen to remind me, why am I talking while I'm on these calls?

Speaker 2: For me talking with Jeb is like talking to a long lost brother. We communicate in the same manner because he understands the tools and skills that we've put together here at the art of charm. He uses them every day in his sales training, just as we are using them every day and building networks and connecting with people. I just love conversations like that. And the other thing about it is when you understand this stuff, the way we do, you are living life and you're viewing it through a different lens than most people. So when you try to explain this to people outside of the podcast, they kind of look at you like you're aware, however, talking with Jeff about it. I was like, oh yeah. It's like, oh, that's right. These skills are universal. When it comes to building an amazing life, he gets

Speaker 1: It at the end of the day, we're in sales. Whether we like it or not, and people buy you. And that's why we're so excited to have jab join us this week. Now this week, shout out, goes to Jason, who just completed unstoppable. He writes us to tell us that he was sure something was wrong. He could feel it despite being a hard worker and all around decent guy, he was struggling with dating and it was spilling over into his work. It seemed like the harder he tried, the bigger hole he dug for himself. He decided to go through unstoppable and realize that it wasn't him at all. It was his own mindsets that were working against him. And he was overthinking everything unstoppable, showed him how to work through his thought processes and throw out the bad stuff. Finally hopping in the driver's seat instead of letting that self-critic drive the car. Thank you so much for creating this course, guys and PS, Michael Harold is the best. Yeah.

Speaker 2: I love hearing that. So if you listen to this podcast, we can make a few assumptions about who you are. And I'm going to tell you you're smart. You've worked hard and you'll take any edge that you can get the beat out your competition. You want consistent results and social freedom to build your dream network and create fulfilling relationships.

Speaker 1: But here's the kicker, despite all the tools and the work you've put in, let's be honest. Life's ups and downs can get the best of you. And when it does, you can become your own worst critic. It happens to all of us. That's exactly why we've created unstoppable to give you the inside track into the psychology of the human mind, the advanced neuroscience, it takes to reframe your own thoughts, rewrite your story, and truly become unstoppable because you shouldn't have to settle for anything less than extraordinary. That's right.

Speaker 2: Unstoppable is jam packed with exercises, drills, and lessons that get you results that stick. This is unlike any course you've ever taken, because it gives you the tools to go from feeling stuck, unfulfilled, and disappointed to in control, powerful and unshakeable. Whether you're in sales, doing presentations, dating, or networking, you'll be able to enjoy the process, see the matrix and perform at an incredible high level. What are you waiting? Thank

Speaker 1: You for joining us [email protected] slash unstoppable head on over right now, the art of Now, before we go, one last favor, head on over to your favorite podcast app and rate and review the show. It helps us bring on amazing guests like jab. And of course we love hearing from all of you in our audience. The art of charm podcast is produced by Michael Harold and Eric Montgomery until next week, go out there and crush it. Yeah,

Speaker 4: [inaudible].

Check in with AJ and Johnny!

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