In today’s episode, we cover what it means to change someone’s mind with Jonah Berger. Jonah is a marketing professor at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania and internationally bestselling author of Contagious, Invisible Influence, and The Catalyst: How to Change Anyone’s Mind.
About Jonah Berger
Jonah Berger is a marketing professor at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. He’s the internationally bestselling author of Contagious, Invisible Influence, and The Catalyst: How to Change Anyone’s Mind. His work looks at why people think, choose, and act the way they do, and how ideas spread. He also researches language and uses natural language processing to pull behavioral insight from text.
Key takeaways
- Pushing harder with facts and reasons usually makes people dig in, so the better move is to find and remove what’s blocking them.
- Reactance is our built-in anti-persuasion radar, and it fires whenever we feel someone else is steering our choices.
- Offering a small menu of options you’d be happy with shifts the listener from poking holes to picking a favorite.
- Pointing out a gap between what people say they value and what they do can move them without any pressure.
- Uncertainty makes people hit pause, so lowering the barrier to trial, like Dropbox’s free tier, helps them decide.
- Real listening means paying attention, understanding, and showing the other person you understood, for example by labeling their emotion.
Jonah’s point about listening so people feel heard is something you can practice with a coach in the room. If you’re curious what that looks like, take a look at how Art of Charm trains it.
Introduction
The art of persuading others goes back as far as humans have had ideas we wanted to convey to others, but what does it mean to change someone’s mind, how do we persuade people to change, and how can your understanding of persuasion save you from getting sold on bad ideas?
What to Listen For
- Why are we as humans so resistant to changing our minds?
- What are the 5 roadblocks to change and how can we remove them so we and those around us can grow?
- What strategies can we use to get people to buy into an idea rather than trying to push the idea onto them?
- How can you ask the right questions to allow people to make better decisions?
- What can we do to create a catalyst for other people to change?
- Why is DropBox a great example of removing roadblocks that enable more people to try your product?
- Why is it important for people to feel they have a sense of agency when you’re trying to persuade them to make a change or purchase?
- Has it become harder to persuade people of good ideas in the age of information?
- How should you deal with awkward pauses in conversation?
- How important is body language when persuading someone and how do you take that into consideration when you’re on a phone call or Zoom meeting?
Persuading others is not so much about changing people’s minds as it is conveying information and allowing people to process it to arrive at the same conclusion you have. We as humans do not like feeling as if our behavior or choices are dictated to us by someone else, so if you want to convince someone that something is a good idea, you can’t just tell them it’s a good idea and they should believe it – you have to be able to show them the same information you have and let them make up their mind about it.
A Word From Our Sponsors
Share your vulnerabilities, victories, and questions in our 17,000-member private Facebook group at theartofcharm.com/challenge. This is a unique opportunity where everyone — both men and women — celebrate your accountability on the way to becoming the best version of yourself. Register today here!
Resources from this Episode
- Catalyst: How to Change Anyone’s Mind by Jonah Berger
- Jonah Berger’s website
Check in with AJ and Johnny!
Best quotes from Jonah Berger
“when we push people, people don’t just go along. They often dig in their heels, they push back.”
Jonah Berger, 1:00
“sometimes we don’t need to step on the gas, sometimes we just need to remove the parking brake.”
Jonah Berger, 4:30
“if you give them one option, their job is poking holes in that option.”
Jonah Berger, 10:30
“uncertainty makes us wait, which is really great for whatever we’re doing currently, but it’s terrible for change.”
Jonah Berger, 25:30
“it’s not enough to have understood what they said, we have to indicate to them that we’ve understood.”
Jonah Berger, 32:30
FAQ
What is the art of persuasion called?
Classically, it’s called rhetoric, the study of how to influence an audience through speech and argument. In this episode, Jonah Berger frames modern persuasion less as arguing and more as removing the obstacles that keep people from changing their own minds.
What is the art of persuasion?
Based on this conversation, it’s helping someone reach a decision themselves instead of pushing them toward it. Jonah explains that people resist when they feel steered, so you show them the same information you have and let them process it.
Why do people push back when you try to persuade them?
Jonah calls it reactance. We like feeling in control of our own choices, so when someone tries to influence us, we get defensive and often counter-argue. His Tide Pods story shows how a warning can end up working like a recommendation.
How can I persuade someone without pushing?
Jonah suggests a few tools: offer a menu of options you’d accept, ask questions that highlight a gap between someone’s values and actions, and let people try a small sample of what you’re proposing. Start by understanding what’s blocking them before you pick an approach.
Related reading
- Influence and persuasion
- The science of influence
- How to stop rambling
- Productive conflict: how to disagree like a champion
If you’d like to build the presence and connection skills behind conversations like these, see how the 90-day program with Johnny works.
