Speaker 1: Welcome back to the art of charm podcast show designed to help you communicate with power and become unstoppable on your path from hidden genius to influential leader. We know you have what it takes to reach your full potential and each and every week we share with you interviews and strategies to help you transform your life. By helping you unlock your X factor, whether you're in sales, leadership, medicine, building client relationships, or even looking for love. We got what you need. You shouldn't have to settle for anything less than extraordinary I'm and I'm Johnny, thank you everyone for tuning in let's kick off today's toolbox episode, we're talking all about charisma. We're going to break down what charisma actually is, why it's so powerful and how you can develop it. Now we know when you're in the presence of a charismatic person, that memory sticks, and at the same time, it's often difficult to point out at exactly what it is that makes this person so captivating.

Speaker 1: And that of course makes it difficult to learn how to become charismatic. The reason for that is charisma is not a single behavior. Instead, what science shows is, that's a variety of traits that come together and make that charismatic person, the center of our attention. And we're going to look into the research and break down true charisma into its individual traits. And we're going to give you a lot of actual advice for each one of those traits. So you can be more charismatic today. You don't even have to learn all those traits at once, even improving just one of them, a little is going to give your own charisma a massive boost. You'll see it in reactions of those around you. And it's going to propel you into practicing this more and more. Michael, thank you for joining us here in our new digs in our Las Vegas studio all the way from Vienna. Yeah. It's a pleasure

Speaker 2: To be here. Let's have some fun. I'm

Speaker 1: Glad our YouTube visitors and viewers are enjoying your magic shirt to our matching background. I even coordinated my boobly for today's episode. We're excited to hop in the new studio and of course we've all heard and seen charismatic people in our lives and wondered what is it that makes them stand out. And I know that there is a lot of great science that probably many in our audience aren't aware of. So we want to jump in first and just talk a little bit about what it is that we mean by career. Yeah. So

Speaker 2: Charisma is actually a term that's been around for quite a while. It was first mentioned by a German sociologist called max Weber. And, um, the thing, however, is that while a hundred years in terms of psychology, that's really just like a day before yesterday. If you think about it. And it's charisma has been the subject of a lot of research that's been going on since the seventies. And at the same time, you still find, you still have a hard time finding a clear in the research and the science and academia and the literature in the scientific literature. And John I know is actually wrote a really interesting paper. It's a, it came out in the, in 2016 and it's titled charisma and ill-defined an ill measured gift. And it seems that charisma, this is what he writes in the paper together with his team. That charisma is one of those things that you immediately recognize. And at the same time, it's really hard to pinpoint what creates it. So that's why I'm excited about our episode today, because we're going to unravel that mystery there. Um, and for the purpose of this toolbox episode, I propose that we go with, um, the definition that I like the most, and this is psychology. Today's definition of charisma. And they write, I quote charisma is the ability to attract to charm and to influence the people around you.

Speaker 1: I like that. And I, I want to lean into this ability to attract. And when you hear that, the first thing you think about is a mate, right? You're looking for a date to attract somebody, however, attraction doesn't end there. Attraction. Also you attract opportunities. You attract new friends, you attract good times. Then this is part of what charisma brings you. And that's what I love about this. It's not just about dating. There's a larger context to it. And I know some recent guests, rich Deviney Joe Navarro have talked a lot about traits and how important traits and attributes are and developing out our personality and standing out. And that's why it's going to be fun to unpack the traits behind charisma, because I think many of us have this gut instinct feeling when we are encountering someone who's charismatic. And of course we remember them, but it can be difficult to get it moving ourselves and feel charismatic, especially in those moments of tension and pressure.

Speaker 1: So we have to start first and foremost with charisma can be learned. There's this myth that we are just born with it. And either you have it or you don't. So if you're tuning in today and you're sitting here saying, well, I don't feel charismatic, no fear. We can develop it. And we've been helping our clients in bootcamps and X-Factor accelerator over the years do just that. So that's why we're excited to unpack a little bit more of these traits and give you some actual steps to actually impact the world around you. Because when you're charismatic that energy flows outward and everyone else around you is left better than you found them.

Speaker 2: It's just like any other traits out there like extroversion conscientiousness, openness to new experiences is it's both nature and nurture. So certain part of it comes with your DNA and you are born with this as the Greeks called it, the divine gift. There's a small part there, but the nurture part is that much stronger. And that's the part where we can really go in and with the right techniques, develop this out. So if you show me two people and one has like this talent for charisma, but the other one has this drive to really work on it. Like my money goes to the second person, because I know that they will reach new levels, that the other person that simply relies on the charisma that they already have, they'll reach a glass ceiling and they don't see that glass ceiling either. That's, you know, that's why it's, that's, what's a devious about them. But the one that says, Hey, you know what? This is where I can find you in my charisma. These are the, these are the parts of it that I want to work on. And this is how I work on them. Like that person becomes unstoppable.

Speaker 1: I know for myself and our are probably some show fans still listening, who heard the first episode of this podcast, or if you were friends with me in high school, even some of my family members listening, they'll be the first to admit that I was not charismatic. I started the show, documenting my own journey towards finding that charisma and trying to develop those traits in my own life. And it's so fun. Now, when we do podcast interviews, we talk to agencies and contractors who want to work with us and they always remark, wow, you guys are so charismatic and dynamic. And I just wish they could have seen me in high school because that's not the case. When you understand, yes, you might be influenced by your genes to get a little bit more energy, to be a little bit more extroverted, to put yourself in opportunities, to be more charismatic.

Speaker 1: Certainly that helps. But I grew up in a household with a single dad who was introverted, who was not very charismatic either. So I didn't even have great examples growing up in my life to really model and develop these traits around. As I started to unpack the science and realize as we're going to talk about these three pieces, wow. It gave me so much more power and control in my life. Instead of hoping that I would just magically get lucky or turn it on one day, or if I got a good night's sleep that charisma just show up. I now know that if I just turn these three dials up in a situation like a job interview, a first date, a podcast interview, I can show up as a charismatic person and leave that impact for myself. I'm a performer and I love the performing arts.

Speaker 1: And when you look at people who get on stage, whether it's an actor, whether it's a musician, they're able to turn it on and turn it off. Or if you're an actor or a performer, you were able to transform yourself into somebody else. When you get on stage and watching people. When I started to learn like the person who I'm speaking to, isn't the person on the stage and the person on the stage isn't necessarily the person I'm going to be speaking to afterwards. It made me realize that you can turn certain things off and on to become who it is you need to be in that moment. What I didn't know were the exact levers that you push and pull until I got involved in self-development and we've been able to isolate them. And that's what we're going to be discussing today. Now, if you're listening to the show, you most likely view yourself as a hidden genius.

Speaker 1: And there are probably people around you who don't know just how smart you are. So let's talk about this hidden genius really quickly. How do we know that we know that because what we discuss on this show is very heady, deep topics that we're not here for, for drama and, and yelling about the news and whatever is on the internet today, what we're discussing is self-development who is going to be willing to put themselves in a position to better themselves. People who know that they can. And so if you know that you can, and that you're reaching for something, then you have decided that there are people are not seeing who you truly are. And, and you haven't even seen your true potential, but you know, it is inside you. You have seen flashes of this genius. So you are looking to be more consistent.

Speaker 1: And what consistence looks like when it comes to self development. As I like to use this dark board analogy where you have a dartboard, you're throwing the darts and getting a bullseye is incredibly difficult, especially in being consistent all the time. That's perfection, everyone. Who's listening to this show cause we were hidden geniuses. We know that perfection is not the answer and that that is unachievable. However, the more you practice it, throwing those thoughts at that bull's eye, the closer you're going to get to that perfection and the closer you're going to be to becoming that hidden genius. And with practice, you can do that on a more consistent basis. As we started the show with, if you're sitting there listening as a hidden genius, the first thing you want to do in your life is become that influential leader. You want others to see your genius and you want to be someone who steps up set, whether that's in your dating life, your social life or your professional life.

Speaker 1: The first step to becoming influential is charisma. Charisma directly impacts your influence. If you're not leaving a positive first impression, if you're not leaving a positive impact, you have no influence. They're not going to listen to the rest of what you have to say. They're not going to follow you. They're not going to pursue you. So if you want to become that influential leader, start showing the world your genius. We need to start developing our charisma. And Michael, I know you have a fun car metaphor that we love using around this exact idea of how charisma works in our lives.

Speaker 2: I don't know if it's fun. Um, but I was listening to H you talked about the three dials, which we're gonna talk about in the bed. And, uh, Johnny, you were talking about the, the, the dark metaphor. And I was thinking like for most people, developing charisma is like, it's like, I'm throwing darts at a dartboard while looking at the mirror and throwing it over their shoulder while they are balancing on one. It like it's super complex is what, what, what are the three dials? Like what are these guys talking about? It's, it's very complex and it's very nebulous. And that's what overwhelms a lot of people as they try to develop their, their charisma, because you can't point at a charismatic speaker or leader and say, that's it like, that's the one thing that does it. It's that network of these traits playing together.

Speaker 2: And, and that even when, when people do learn those traits, they're still oftentimes a little bit overwhelmed by all the staff they have to manage. And this is where my air quotes fun car metaphor comes in. Because if you think back to the very first time you sat in a car, it's like so many things going on this steering wheel, that all the panels, all the switches, all this stuff, right? Like, well, where do I even start? Well, where do you start? First? You find someone who knows how to drive a car and you're listening to the show. So you found, you know, some experts on charisma, and then you start looking at the individual pieces. First, you learn how, I don't know. It's been a long while since I got my driver's license. So maybe you start with learning how to use the steering wheel.

Speaker 2: And then you learn how to use the clutch. And then you learn how to use the turn signal on. And then you learn how the traffic regulations work and what the street signs mean. So, so you're not going all in. You're not starting your first day in the car, on the highway, right? You start by taking the first steps and practicing those and getting battery better at them. And then 10, 20 years later, you look back and it's like, of course, driving a car is easy. You know, I don't even have to think about it anymore. And that's what we want to take you guys. I

Speaker 1: Remember the first time that I had my dad in the car with me, when I learned to drive and we picked up the car that I purchased with my graduation money. And we took that thing straight on the highway. And that was the first and last time my dad had ever gotten in the car while I was driving. Tell you that much, your dad's a wise man. I haven't spent too much time in a car with you driving either now much like driving. You can't fake charisma. You can't fake being an F1 driver. You can't fake charisma. And I think this is honestly where a lot of people get it wrong, whether it's other coaches or other programs around developing out your charisma, this idea that if you just pretend you're someone else, if you just look at those charismatic figures, you just pretend you're ex president Clinton, right?

Speaker 1: Someone who we all identify as very charismatic, no matter what side of the aisle you're on. Well, you can't pretend to be ex president Clinton. That's not going to work for you. You can't fake this stuff. Science actually is the way through for you developing this. And that's why so important for us to define these three dials for you and how you turn those dials. And in what combination and what degree you turn them is going to be different. Johnny's charisma is different than my charisma is different than Michael's charisma. And it's important. We don't want you to become Johnny. We don't want you to become aging. We want you to understand these traits in yourself and bring them to the forefront when you want to. When you, I want to add something there as well. And I used this example of actors or performance artists who are get on stage and they transform themselves before our eyes into this character.

Speaker 1: And you mentioned that you can't fake charisma. I think this is why so many actors get lost in roles that they are playing, where they can't get out of the role, because they have transformed themselves to the best of their ability to be this person. And for a lot actors and some have ruined their careers because they have gotten either stuck or they get pigeonholed as a certain character. And it messes with them because when you act in a certain way, you think in a certain way. And so by, by doing that and for long periods of time, and if you're in a working on a movie, that movie might be being filmed for close to a year. And to be this character, to wake up, move in a certain manner, to start becoming this person for so many hours a day, it's why they get lost.

Speaker 1: This is so I have to agree. I don't think you can fake it. You may get away with it for about 10 minutes, maybe an hour faking it. But, but eventually your true character is going to be exposed. And if you're listening, we know you don't want to fake it. You're here for the right reasons. And that's why we love working with clients on exactly this, developing out these traits for you. Stop. Are you tired of inconsistent results? Are you dating who you want to be dating? Are you where you want to be in your career? Do you have a proper roadmap to get you to where you want to go? If you're tired of wasting time and tired of seeing other people effortlessly build their dream lives while you work twice as hard with fewer results to show for it, perhaps it's time to get the guidance, skills and accountability.

Speaker 1: You need to reach that next level. Our X-Factor accelerator you'll develop the tools to communicate powerfully, cultivate, unstoppable confidence, and be held accountable by a community of high value members, mentors, and coaches. This is no ordinary community or group each member has been selected and vetted to make sure that your experience is a prosperous one. That's right. AIJ our members are driven, knowledgeable and dedicated to advancing their lives and the lives of our community. They are CEOs, professionals, entrepreneurs, servicemen. So come join the fun. If implementing concepts from this show has enhanced your life. Imagine what a year long mentorship in the X factor accelerator could do for you. Unlock your very own X-Factor and become extraordinary apply today@unlockyourxfactor.com. That's right. Pause the show and head on over to unlock your X-Factor dot com to apply today. So let's talk about these three dials because once we crack this code for you, it's going to get really exciting as you start to realize, oh, this is what I need to be focusing on to actually be that charismatic version of myself.

Speaker 1: Now, this first one presence you may have heard us mention it on the show in the past. And it actually is so key to being charismatic, because if you are in the future, thinking about what you're going to say next, or setting up that one liner so that you get the crowd laughing, you are not being charismatic. If you're living in the past and you're dwelling on what you said previously and why that didn't go over well and why that person has judged you, you can't possibly be charismatic. We are drawn to charismatic people because they are fully and 100% engaged in the moment that they are in with you. They are not thinking about other things. They are not worried, whether it's self-reflection or outward when everyone else is doing that presence is key to you establishing charisma that others can feel in interacting with you.

Speaker 1: And when I was in my twenties, like any young person, you're, it's very difficult to just focus on presence that where you are, who you're speaking to and to let go of everything else. And certainly for me, that was difficult as a young person, I was very rambunctious. I had a lot of things that I want to do. And like any young person, especially a young man, you're thinking about, what am I getting out of this interaction? And for the next interaction I go into, what am I getting out of that? And when I let go of all of those things and just focus on being and concentrating on, focusing on enjoying the interaction with no agenda attached to it, just, this is going to be a conversation and we're going to see where it goes. And I'm going to focus my attention on what they are saying, and I'm going to be listening to them with my eyes and my ears. All of a sudden my focus shifted. And I can also tell the ease that to put other people at. And because of that, I enjoyed the conversations that much more. And so did they, and it was my first initial understanding of changing a few things about myself and then watching my situations change.

Speaker 2: Think about talking with someone, really put yourself into the situation where you're talking with someone and that person is fully there. No looking over your shoulder, no trying to interrupt you, not like reaching for their phone, checking Facebook. They're really, really there. That is really a gift that you can give another person. And I'll tell you what happens for the other person is because you are there constantly being present with them. No matter whether they say something stupid, or there is an awkward pause for a second, you still there and you're present what you allow. The other person to do is to stop being stuck in their mind and to focus on the conversation. Because most of the time, we're like, what if we get interrupted? What if I say something stupid? What if there's an awkward pause, but be there and be present. And the other person learns that, Hey, I can relax. I can enjoy this conversation. I can just be myself. Now, how does that change? The conversation

Speaker 1: And presence is not easy, especially for those who are inexperienced. And I know, and about myself growing up, not feeling charismatic, we even see this in our bootcamps. Over the past weekend, we do video work with our clients and we have our team challenged them in conversation. Because inevitably, when you're going into a situation where you're going to be filmed, you're going to have interaction with someone. What do you do? You start strategizing, you start thinking, I'm going to say this. They're going to say this. Then I can say that. Now you got a seven layer cake of how the conversation's going to go. And guess what happens when one of our coaches throws a monkey wrench in and goes left? When you're thinking they're going to go, right. Well, the other six layers of your cake collapsed and the conversation falls flat and that's not charismatic.

Speaker 1: So you have to gain experience in these moments of tension and pressure to remove the what ifs, right? If I've talked to a thousand people at networking events, do you think I'm going to be overwhelmed with what ifs on the thousand and first person that I talked to know those, what ifs start to diminish with experience and that's, as we said earlier, why you can't fake this stuff? You can't fake being present. You can't pretend that you're not thinking about the past or the future. When you're in conversation with people, we naturally innately pick up on that in others. And if you have a significant other or a spouse, I guarantee you, there's nothing that gets on your nerves more than when they're not fully present. And you're sharing an emotional bit when you are trying to connect with them. And they're thinking about that text or what's on their calendar or their to-do list that's ever growing.

Speaker 1: So presence is something that we have to practice. We have to gain experience in actually centering yourself in that moment. And of course there are ways to do that with mindfulness. We highly recommend whether you're in our X-Factor program or in our bootcamp through experience of putting yourself in conversations with strangers constantly consistently, and those what ifs diminish and your ability to be centered and present goes through the roof. I see so many young go, okay, I want to be more present. And I'm working on that. What should I be focusing on? Emotional bids are just one aspect of many that you could be focusing on that is going to give you an opportunity to really uplift the other person, as well as the context of the communication that is being sent. So the emotions that are are being, uh, conveyed in that conversation. I mean, there is a lot, and it's, it's pick the thing that you want to focus on and, and, and transfix on that.

Speaker 1: And that trans fiction is, again, putting that attention on the other person. It's not self-focused attention. It's not concern about what could happen or what has happened in the past. And I think that's why we often feel that charisma is so fleeting. It's so difficult to pin down because you have to be fully centered and comfortable with yourself to be present. In these moments. You don't have clear direction and what you're focusing on, you're inevitably just going to get stuck in your head because you're in this conversation with somebody, you might not know that very well. So there's tension and pressure there. Once that tension of pressure kicks in, you have no choice, but to focus on yourself unless you know what you're focusing on. That's so key when it comes to presence, it's so easy for you to go, oh yeah, totally. I know I need to be present.

Speaker 1: That makes complete sense to me. Think about the conversations that you're having on a daily basis. Right now, we've talked about this on the show in the past autopilot conversations where you ask someone in small talk, how are you doing? You give a normal answer. I'm good. Move on to the next thing. If you really want to practice presence and strengthen your frame around this exact thing, to develop out your charisma, stop falling into the trap of autopilot responses. Start changing small talk, by being honest, by being vulnerable, by being authentic. And that's going to create more opportunity in your life to practice being present. You can be present with the barista instead of when she says, Hey, how's your day going? You go good. You tell her actually it's epic. I just finished a bootcamp in Las Vegas. And I'm so excited for the transformation our clients had that I can't wait to drive home to LA and share it on my social media. That's a totally different response than my day is good. How's yours. And it creates moments with strangers for you to practice presence. Now let's talk about the second dial my goal, because I feel like presence is foundational. Once we get that handled, we can start actually dialing up the second one presence,

Speaker 2: Definitely 90% of the equation at the beginning. That's where you get the most bang for your buck. When it comes to charisma. The second one is enthusiasm. That's the, the high energy, the good vibes, the fascination that you have with being in the moment with whatever it is that you're doing. And now someone might raise a finger and go like, yeah, but you know, there's not that much to be excited about in my, in my job or in my, I don't know whatever I'm doing. I'm grocery shopping. Like, what are you talking about? Right. But that's where the charisma comes in, because I can promise you that you can see people in a grocery store or in a boring office job that are really enthusiastic about some of the things they're doing. And you can get enthusiastic about buying yogurt in the grocery store. I'm like, oh man, there's a new like blueberry yogurt. I'm so gonna try that out. It just, you know, next time that barista osteo, you do it. You can talk about the, the blueberry yogurt that, that you just found. And, and this idea of just finding the magic and the excitement and even the everyday things going into life with this, beginner's mind maybe seeing everything again a little bit for the first time and see where, where that magic was and then bringing it back.

Speaker 1: Now, I have to point out something about enthusiasm because when many people hear enthusiasm, they think, oh, I just have to be louder. I have to change my vocal tonality. And that's certainly one part of enthusiasm, but enthusiasm is also conveyed through non verbal communication, which is why we love video work in our programs, both an X-Factor in the video work that we do in zoom or in person in our bootcamp. You don't often realize how you're showing up in your nonverbal communication with strangers. We, if we feel a little anxiety, tension and pressure, often default to self-soothing behaviors and those signal, a lack of enthusiasm, or even an active disinterest. So enthusiasm is actually not furrowing your brow, but having that excitement show on your face, that smile on your lips, that eye contact conveys enthusiasm. And when I think about enthusiasm, I think about how we interact with newborn infants, right?

Speaker 1: So if you're a new parent or you have children, how did you interact with those infants when they came home, you were so expressive in your face and in your communication to try to get that expression back from them, right. To try to get that enthusiasm mirrored back. And I think we can bring that into conversations with adults and convey that same level of enthusiasm and that amps up our charisma. So understanding that enthusiasm is not just, oh, I've got to add some energy in my voice. I just got to speak louder and let the other person know that I'm excited with my tonality. You know, as we saw over the weekend, simple changes in your eye contact in opening up your arms, instead of crossing them and actually wearing a smile on your face. When other people are things with you conveys the enthusiasm that leads to them, feeling that charisma from you for each three of these.

Speaker 1: And we'll get to the next one in a minute. I remember understanding them. And then I remember learning them and being able to measure the results. And then from there, it was well, now that I see the results of adding this into my communication, do I want to continue with it? So presence was certainly one of those things. I remember working on it. I remember the results and I remember thinking, wow, this is making life so much easier. Enthusiasm is no different. And as you know, AIJ when you met me, I was a bar manager and bartender and talent buyer for a club that I was working at in North Carolina. When I got into self-development and started learning all this stuff, I used to pick out something every evening to use in my interactions at work behind the bar as a bartender. And I got plenty of reps and I would choose something and maybe I would work on that one thing for a week, three weeks, whatever the period would be as I was measuring the results.

Speaker 1: And I also, I remember I would measure those results, monetarily, and the money that I was making through my tips presence. Of course you could imagine certainly up the money that I was making, but in Thule, diazepam in that scenario. And in that context of being in a bar, and I want to also set this up where as a musician and as a guitar player, my heroes were Keith Richards, Johnny thunders, all these way, way too cool for school guys. And I carried that sort of air with me. And you can imagine in dealing with people with those sort of, with an interaction like that, the results that I would get, they were certainly mixed. Some people got it. Some people didn't, a lot of people thought I was an arrogant. However, when I started working on presence, when I started bringing enthusiasm in it for the just show people that I was interested in, excited to be speaking to them, my tips went through the roof.

Speaker 1: My interactions got that much easier. This is when people now started to seek me out because the interactions were so enjoyable. And as you always say, and this is a Dale Carnegie thing that people remember how you make them feel, not what you say to them. And so when you allow people to feel good, and because you have a large smile on your face and you are enjoying the conversation, well, that makes it easier for them. They're feeling good. Now they're going to seek you out because they want more of your time because that time enhances their life. Well, there's actually a scientific basis for this enthusiasm is actually contagious. Yes, you can actually transfer that emotional state onto the other person, which as Carnegie said, you're making them feel good. And then remember that they felt good around you.

Speaker 2: And they came enthusiastic and felt good as well. The emotional contagion, which is true for every emotion out there. I mean, if you go into a room and you are hunched over, you're sad, you're angry. You'll, this is a weird word to use in 2021. But you'll in fact, those around you with that exact same emotion. So what do you want it to be? We want it to be high energy, happy energy, or do you want it to be slow, giant taken aback, being, being quiet. And this is, this is if the core of attention approval and an acceptance that bringing that stuff out there so that it spreads throughout the room. And who brought it there? You did. I want to point out one thing though, and that's sometimes life's a little bit difficult and enthusiasm means that you are an optimist, but it doesn't mean that you see everything as, as rosy all the time, because let's face it. Sometimes, you know, you're in a situation that's a little bit difficult and being an optimist. And that situation means that you always see that there are other choices. This is not the be all end, all of it. Like there are always other choices and your job is to enthusiastically point them out, think them out and then go that route.

Speaker 1: And that's key choices. You know, if you're a super fan of the show, you might even know that Johnny and I have a tattoo around this exact concept of the choices we make and how impactful those choices are. We have a tattoo of the letters B over a, and that B is the choice, the choice to enjoy the sock, to embrace the struggle, to realize that the payoff is on the other end of the suffering, whatever that suffering may be and understanding that you show up every day with that ability to make the choice, to wipe the slate, clean, to look for the positive, to see even in the struggle that there's something great. That's going to come out. The other end of that, we have interviewed some of the most amazing people on this show. And it's, it's a blessing every day. But one of the things that I've, I have gathered from those interviews as the most successful people do embrace the suck with a smile on their face.

Speaker 1: And we were just talking about this yesterday with somebody like David Goggins or Jocko Willink, where Jocko, if anything goes wrong, the answer is good. Good, good. Right. It's raining outside. How are we good? Hey, this is not working good because he sees it as an opportunity to get better, to learn, to do something different. Now it's going to be novel. Uh, David Goggins in the same manner. It's like, great. It's going to be awful. Let's let's get to it. And I want to speak about pessimism because I know there are some pessimists, the audience, and that's okay. Part of the reason, and the impetus for this show is to help you build the relationships in your life that support you in those moments of weakness. In those moments of pessimism and pessimism is only temporary. So if you surround yourself with high value people, if you use the tools and skills from this show to find uplifting, enthusiastic, present friends with that charisma, they will be there to support you through the pessimism.

Speaker 1: And that's not to say Johnny and I are blind optimist. And if you followed along over the last year, we lost a significant chunk of our business to the pandemic. For years, if you're listening to the show, we would have told you to, Hey, come out, hang out with us in LA. We have a bootcamp with your name on it. And guess what? COVID taught us. Well, we can't do that anymore. So yeah, we had some self doubt. We had some pessimism. We were like, how the heck are we going to turn this thing around? Well, there's certainly a lot of uncertainty for a lot of people during that time, because that's what happens in life. But I knew no matter how pessimistic I was, Johnny was going to give me that sprinkle of optimism. I was going to hop on zoom with Michael and Vienna and he was going to cheer me up.

Speaker 1: And I knew that I would start to see the light at the end of the tunnel, because I surround myself with people who see the light at the end of the tunnel and vice versa. There were moments of self-doubt for Johnny and his moved to Las Vegas. And we talked through it. And that's why we want you as a listener to take everything you're learning from the show, make it actionable in your life and achieve great results. Reach your full potential. Surrounded with people who, what I want to do at this point is I want to give our audience a few things that they can do for, to, to Jack their enthusiasm, to get it moving. And also what to look for to know that you are hearing you're hitting that bulls-eye or at least coming close to it. So with enthusiasm, Aja you're, you're on the phone a lot, you're doing a lot of cells here at, at ASC.

Speaker 1: Do you have anything to fire yourself up when you got that call? Because you know, you have to be enthusiastic when you get on that phone to talk to people. And any time that I'm doing any of the coaching or I'm reaching out, or I'm doing sales, or I'm just doing outreach. I fire myself up. I get off the couch. I got my ear buds in. I start walking around, I get my juices flowing so that when that person answers on the other end, they don't have a, they don't have a choice, but to come on that ride with me, Jesus, this is flowing is exercise, right? Exercise creates the brain chemistry necessary to fertilize that enthusiasm. All right. So I know that moving my body and exercises is number one. I'm going to be a little honest. I know we bash a lot of social media on the show.

Speaker 1: One of my guilty pleasures is aspiring. Uptechtalk checking out what the next generation of kids are listening to. And I will end up in these Spotify playlist rabbit holes, because I'm not up on music like you are Johnny. I don't have very much time, but if I find a little tick, talk about top five dance songs. This summer I'll look up that playlist. And Ali will find a few songs in that playlist that fire me up. And you better believe if I'm feeling a little pessimistic. If I'm feeling a little self doubt, if I'm not feeling my most confident self, which we'll talk about next, I will put on that playlist before I pick up the phone before I sketch a client before I get in front of that room, because I know that that creates a state change in me and gets my enthusiasm, juices flowing.

Speaker 1: That's the most important part of that. You have to find what allows certain triggers, buttons to be turned on turnoff, to put you in an emotional state. The one that you are looking for that is going to benefit you for what you have to do. So if you're going on a sales call, you want, you want to trigger yourself into the emotional state that allows you to, to focus on the other person, to be excited, to learn about who we are going to be talking about and whether or not you can help this person. If it's an outreach of a word word on an chai with a new vendor that might be coming on the healthy or the charm, well, get fired up to show them who they're going to be working with and get them fired up to want to be a part of what we have going on here.

Speaker 1: And sometimes I just have to fire up the PS five, turn on FIFA 21. You can find my handle at AIG harbinger. I've had a few show. Fans challenged me in FIFA, and I just need to beat some stranger online in a game or two, a FIFA. And that, that pumps my state and gets me going again. Are you, are you pushing that? Or you cha so sounds like a challenge straight up. It is a challenge. Now let's talk about this third dial. I subtly hinted at it and I know we've had numerous episodes about it. We certainly coach our clients in this exact area. All of this falls flat. If we don't have confidence, if we don't have that belief that we can be charismatic, that people do see us in a positive life and we then become authentic and assertive in our communication, right? If we are lacking in confidence, we're holding back that enthusiasm. And we're certainly going to be struggling with presence, right? Michael,

Speaker 2: I want to point out something that a lot of people get wrong when it comes to confidence. Confidence doesn't mean you don't have fear. Confidence means that you will have the trust in yourself to deal with whatever comes your way. So when I go up on stage to give a talk, I know something's going to go wrong. The clicker doesn't work, the microphone stops working. There's someone going wild in the audience. I don't know something is always going wrong. And the, uh, the, the question is, do I trust myself to deal with a situation? Do I trust myself that if there's, I, I dunno someone hacked laying in the background of the audience or someone's phone ringing, distracting everyone. Do I trust myself to deal with a situation? And that's where the confidence comes in. So there might still be an element of fear there, but that doesn't have a say in what I'm doing while, while I'm having my moment. And, and that's actually at the, at the root of, of confidence. So Frank from the Latin con fedora with trust, this is not, this is not necessarily a feeling confidence as a behavior, trusting yourself in handling whatever comes your way.

Speaker 1: Michael. I know you're very humble. Lots of humility. You've been on thousands of stages as a public speaker, and you still know that something's going to go wrong and trust the process anyways. So that's not to say that Michael, some rookie onstage and oh, the clicker is going to go wrong. Or we've had a one-off presentation, thousands of stages, tons of public speaking, still trust in yourself that no matter what it is, the slides not working, the computer plug chargers, fried the clickers, distracting you, you have trust in your ability to show up to the best authentic, assertive version of you in those moments. And

Speaker 2: That's okay. Comes also with that. That's why you can't fake that charisma stuff, right? You need to be out there like Johnny was saying earlier, it's like, you're bringing it on. Right. Something goes wrong. Like, like bring it. Uh, I'm doing, I'm doing a workshop tomorrow. And in my mind, I'm already thinking, okay, something's going to go wrong. Like, everything is prepped, everything is prepped. And I know that something's going to go wrong. And my mindset is, yeah, bring it on. Let's see, like, I'll show you how I deal with it. Right. And, and here's the cool thing. If you, if I handle things like that on stage in front of an audience with confidence, like no matter what goes wrong for the audience, there still is charismatic person up there on stage dealing with a situation. And what they're thinking is like, whoa, you know, there's just like there was Nasr is walking over the stage and his microphone exploded and then, you know, whatever, and this dude was just chilling there and, you know, taking things like that's, you can't, you can't show that you're confident almost until like something kind of has to go wrong for people to see like, whoa, this person is, is confidence.

Speaker 2: So there's, there's nothing. Well there's of course there's something wrong with, you know, things not going right. But in terms of charisma, this is, this is your time to shine as well.

Speaker 1: I think it's really important to point out that many of us right now, listening to the show and our lives are in high stakes situations, negotiations, interviews, even first dates or high stakes situations where we don't want to be rejected. We don't want to make a fool of ourselves. And unfortunately we are not practicing showing up in low stakes situations enough to work through that tension pressure, to be able to turn it on in those high stakes moments. And that's really why we love the X factor accelerator program, because we work together to create low stakes environments for you to practice these exact communication skills in to simulate that self-doubt that judgment coming up and holding you back from being authentic. And if you put yourself in enough, low stakes situations where you push through that fear, that self doubt, you overcome it in a meaningful way that allows you to show up authentically.

Speaker 1: You're going to have confidence going into the high stakes situation. You will have trained that muscle to wrestle with the self doubt, to defeat the self doubt and come out the other end, realizing that, Hey, I can do this. And that's what I think is so key about coaching and training and, and working with us or working with any coach for that matter. Because if you're not putting yourself in situations to practice, to get a feel for what that situation is going to be like in the future, then you are going to be hit with what ifs you are going to be living in the past and not be present. You are not going to be able to be enthusiastic at a high stakes situation, because these are new feelings for you. These are new situations that all of a sudden you have to start to take in.

Speaker 1: You have to rationalize. So putting yourself in low stakes situations outside of your comfort zone, allow you in those high stakes situations to really, I love confidence and I love gaining confidence. And I love putting in the work that allows me to know that no matter what happens in this situation, when lose fell, flaw, whatever that there's confidence to be gained. And even to this day, I'm 47. I've been playing in bands on stage since I was a kid, since I don't know, 15 years old, I have gone on stage and have, have sucked for so many times that the idea of going on stage now at 47 is great. And do I know that there is a, there's a likelihood that the show does not go well, of course, but confidence that you gain from learning, from failing, from picking yourself back up, dusting yourself off from knowing and seeing flashes that there is greatness there.

Speaker 1: It makes it easy for you to put aside all of those failings, all of those learnings to strive for what you know is the good stuff. And, and I love that. And so even for myself now, uh, we were talking about Michael doing a speaking gig. If I was to do a speaking gig. And I, I find speaking gigs more nerve-wracking than playing on stage because I'm so used to that. However, I will take the opportunity to speak on stage regardless because I don't care if I fell. I don't care if it doesn't go good, that opportunity gives me more confidence for the next one. And I'm only getting that by saying yes, and saying whatever comes with that. Yes is okay. And in fact, I'm still gaining. And I say this in our programs all the time, you get three things every time that you say yes, every time you say yes to a new experience, you open yourself up to an opportunity. You get three things. Number one, you get a story, you get a story to tell your friends about what happened and what, where it went wrong, or how it went great. An opportunity to share you learn something about yourself that you previously did not know. And that information is invaluable because you know where you stand, which means, you know, where, where you need to go, what the work that you have to put in to move forward. And then lastly, you get experience points that always transfer to confidence points regardless.

Speaker 2: So Johnny, this is exactly what happened to me with the first talk ever that I gave in Germany. Now, this was a big thing for my family. Um, they came from everywhere. Uh, the venue was so packed. I think they had, it was so packed that people were standing all the way in the quarry door, out through the door. It was a small venue, but, but anyway, like for, you know, little Michael like doing this first talk ever,

Speaker 1: Michael, I want to know that for a lot of people speaking on stage public speaking is the number one fear that they're going to have to deal with for a lot of people, for a majority of people, fear,

Speaker 2: Uh, public speaking, second biggest fear death. So yeah,

Speaker 3: There you go. There you go. So

Speaker 2: I'm doing this talk, right? It's a 40 minute talk. It's a very personal, it's a very vulnerable talk with this packed audience and I blank. And I'm 30 minutes into the talk and I completely blank. And I didn't track my notes. Like my notes were still on like page one and I'm looking at your audience and everyone's looking back at me. And in my mind, I'm like, this is what the entire world is like, scared off and under the middle of it. And then I'm looking around, it's like, this is kind of cool. This is kind of cool. And then it came back to me like what the next piece was. And I was thinking, well, let me, let me sit in this moment just for one more second. And then I launched back into, into my talk. And at the end of the talk, I turned to one of my family members and I said, I totally blanked, but, but no one realized it. And she looks at me and she goes, I, no, dude, that was really, really, really obvious that you had totally forgotten everything to say. And, and here we go, like freaking story, uh, which is kind of, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a cool, fun story that you can tell with enthusiasm. So even there in a moment like that, that that's, that has so much potential in, in a conversation as well. Every great

Speaker 1: Success in your life is on top of a mountain of tiny failures. Every great success is a culmination of you failing in a variety of different ways, unlocking that experience to lead to the confidence, to take that action, to get to success. So I want to recap three dials. We busted some myths. It is charisma is nature, nurture. We have influence over it. We can develop it out. It's a confluence of three traits. So now we understand the dials in our life that we need to turn up to be charismatic. We need to be present. We need to show enthusiasm and we need to have confidence. So our challenge for you this week, each and every day, I want you to think about one of those dials and how you can turn it up a notch, how you can be more present in your communication and conversation.

Speaker 1: How can you show more enthusiasm in your work, in your relationship and how can you be more authentic and assertive to showcase that confidence, to lead to the charisma that we're all chasing. If you're listening to the show, we know you're chasing it. And if you're feeling right now that you're authentic, but not assertive, or that you struggled to show enthusiasm and people don't respond well to you, or it's just so hard, you're in your head all the time, presence is fleeting. And it's a challenge. I encourage you to take a look at our X factor accelerator and become one of our success stories, working through this with other people who are on that same journey in low stakes environments to create the mountain of tiny failures that lead to great success. [inaudible]

Speaker 1: Johnny. That was a lot to get through. So if you've wondered why charismatic people stand out so much? Well now, you know, charisma is made up of so many parts that very few people truly scientifically understand it. And even if they understand it, even fewer people have the drive to practice these traits too well, because it is made up of several different traits. That's what makes it difficult because everyone can see a charismatic person and make a couple guesses of what makes that person charismatic. And they would be right, partially because it is the sum of the whole, right? It's all of those parts. All of those traits together is what makes somebody incredibly charismatic. But all of us know those certain little traits that our friends or people that we look up to have, that we look to bring more into our life. But as we were talking about in the show, by experimenting and working and building on all of them makes you a very well-rounded charismatic person and that's what we're discussing.

Speaker 1: And that's what we want people to be. And that's what makes last weekend so amazing. We had a bootcamp in Las Vegas and we watch those participants charisma grow over the course of just three days, focusing on those three traits. And we've been working with Todd for a little while in X-Factor and now boot camp. And it was amazing to see his transformation over the weekend. Charisma is not something you're born with. We can develop it. Now this week, shout out, goes to one of our newest X-Factor members. Eric wrote me to tell me a little bit about a win he had just within the first week of joining X factor. I tried the how and why questions with a new volunteer at work that was feeling a little cynical at first, as often people talk, but just don't show up. I use the things in the lesson and found he just moved here from New York and has gotten hired at GM.

Speaker 1: He really cares about nature and tech, which I never would have known otherwise, as we talked, he told me about stuff he's worked on in tech and his background and experience in Python and raspberry pies. I did, we should connect with our sensor team and he was over the moon about that. It's a team that is stuck on a software problem with some heat sensors in the wall. We have sensors and data loggers all over, but using what I learned this week made a huge difference. Thanks so much for helping me. Uh, I love hearing that that's exactly what X factor is about. Not only are the core modules there, so you're learning and growing each and every week, but Johnny, Michael and I are there to support you in our coaching calls. If you're ready to unlock your very own X factor, head over to unlock your X factor.com to apply today and be like, Eric, start seeing results. Now, could you do us in the entire artist time team, a huge favor. Could you head on over to iTunes and rate and review this podcast? It would certainly mean the world to us and it helps others find the show until next week. I'm a J Johnny go out there and crush it.

Speaker 4: [inaudible] [inaudible].

Speaker 1: Now in our last two toolbox episodes, we talked about how

Speaker 2: To make small, talk more compelling and open up a world of opportunities with anyone that you meet today. I'm joined by Johnny here in Las Vegas and Michael all the way in Vienna. And we're going to break down how to take small talk and turn it into meaningful conversation. Or as we call it smart talk, that's right. How do we transition out of those surface level conversations into something deeper that can create that opportunity for a relationship?

Speaker 3: You know, it's all about relationships. So w where are these relationships that we're talking about? Well, we're talking about relationships at work. We're talking about leadership. We're talking about sales, talking to your prospect and all of these cases, you need to be obsessed with your audience, with your prospect in order to get the information that you need in order to give them value, to be able to solve their problems, to offer solutions. And you can't do that without having an understanding of who you're talking to. Now, we've been discussing this for weeks now. And my favorite thing about this, and we've said it before, if you're somebody who hasn't taken the reins of small talk, you find it boring, or does it go anywhere that's on you? Because it is an opportunity to set a foundation for you to allow comfort and trust, to be built and vulnerability to happen from that point.

Speaker 2: Exactly. And if you're struggling with small talk, we put together a cheat sheet, that's right. A phone wallpaper with our conversation, formula compelling questions to use in conversation. And some quick tips for you. If you'd like to learn more and get that free cheat sheet from us, go to the art of charm.com/smalltalk and grab that download today after we've initiated smalltalk. Well, as Johnny said, we have to take the lead. We have to take it somewhere, but there's a huge myth. And that myth is that it's binary, right? Michael,

Speaker 1: Most people think that you leave small talk and you jump into the deep end and you go like full on vulnerability, full on big topics, talking, you know, vulnerable stuff. Um, Eben reality. It's a small and gradual process. And we're going to show you guys how you can slowly transition by adding just a tiny little bit of vulnerability. See how it's received, how it's reciprocated, and then move on from there. So really in baby steps, going from small talk to the really big

Speaker 2: Stuff. Now we see this blind spot in our bootcamp participants all the time. They think that if they just have a bunch of little small conversations, then naturally something is going to come out of that. And as we know, hope is not a strategy. You can't just rely on your small talk to create connection in your life. You have to be able to transition out small, talk into our meaningful conversation. And the way to do that is with vulnerability. Now here's where that blind spot comes in because many of us think that vulnerability is sharing our deepest, darkest secrets, the things we're afraid of, the things that make us anxious. And that's just not the case. In fact, vulnerability is a lot easier if you shift your perspective on it. But first we want to share with you a metaphor that we use that hopefully will help you understand how important vulnerability is and how you can lead. And that's our cave metaphor, right? Johnny

Speaker 3: Poor is built on disclosure and disclosure happens when two people risk vulnerabilities. It is that risking of vulnerabilities is showing investment into the other person and that you trust the other person. And you're going to have to leave that if you expect the other person to be vulnerable, to risk in that relationship. So the cave analogy allows us to look at it objectively and paints a good picture of what it looks like. So Michael was talking about lateral conversation, lateral questions, where are you from? What do you do? Do you enjoy that line of work? And these are basic. We hear them all the time, and this is how conversations get started. You could say that they're, they're almost as if they're icebreakers, but where are we going? Well, if you're in the cells, if you are building a team, if you're trying to get people to buy into your ideas, you have to lead them into being vulnerable and lead them into hearing your ideas and accepting of those ideas.

Speaker 3: So we're going to use those icebreaking type lateral questions to walk up to this cave, the mouth of the cave. So I'm talking to him, asking him where he's from, what he does for a living. And he's following along, he's answering there. Isn't much in the way of vulnerability to answer those questions on a surface level. And you could say that we've walked up to the cave. Now I may ask a J on a vertical question. Now, what is it about that line of work? You like so much now for AGA to answer that question, he will have to take a step into that cave. Now, as you could, as you can tell from the analogy, if he's nervous about it, if he has any discomfort in this idea of being vulnerable, he's going to look to me and he's going to be hesitant and walking in. I have to be the leader here to show that going into that cave, that nothing is going to happen. That risk is great, and that vulnerability will lead to us enjoying the conversation and having more fun and being more vulnerable together as we build this rapport. So I'm going to answer those questions. I'm going to start to become vulnerable. First. This allows me in the analogy to walk into the cave, shine a flashlight around to show AIJ that it's okay. That he's welcome to come in. And the way

Speaker 2: We do that simply is through sharing emotion. In fact, emotion is the single commonality that's universal amongst all humans. You may not have the same family experience. You certainly most likely don't have the same occupation. Maybe you don't enjoy the same things to relax and unwind, and maybe your dreams are completely different. So when we're using the Ford acronym and we're talking about data in that exchange, it's a great way to get started and to move laterally. But vertically is on emotions and emotions have a scale. So when we're trying to take small, talk into smart talk, we want to start focusing on positive emotions and sharing our own positive emotions because emotions are also contagious. So if we're bringing energy and emotion into the conversation like that cave analogy, we're taking that first step into the dark cave. And of course, they're going to be ready to follow behind you and start sharing more emotion.

Speaker 2: And I know we've used this Maya Angelou quote on this show constantly because it is so impactful. People don't remember what you say. They don't remember what you do. They only remember how you made them feel that's right. Your sales prospects only remember how good you made them feel. Are you able to solve their problems and feel supported? Do they really believe that you understand that, right? Those are the feelings that guide our decision-making that guide our ability to purchase something that guide all of our behaviors. We like to backwards rationalize those behaviors, but it all starts from an emotional place. So what we're doing is we're adding emotion into the conversation. You can think of it as sharing what your excited about at your job or why you're fired up in the morning to do what you do, and then asking, what is it about your line of work? That's so exciting for you. We've walked a step into that cave. We've created an opportunity for the other person to add emotion into the conversation. And what do you know? We've started to transition out of boring, small talk and into smart talk. The way

Speaker 1: That I like to describe this is lateral communication versus vertical communication. So I think about small talk, like throwing a skipping stone over lake, and it's like touching the surface again and again and again, but it never goes steep. It always stays on the surface. Those other small talk questions, like where you from, what do you do? What do you do for fun? Right? It always stays on the surface. Now, how could we bring in emotion? How can we bring in just a little bit of vulnerability to test the ground and to shine the light into that cave? Well, we go vertical by saying, what do you like most about it? Like, if I were to ask you, what do you do? And you say, well, you know, I'm a barista. I make coffee. I could ask where you're from, or I could go deeper, bring in that emotional component and ask, what do you like most about being a barista?

Speaker 1: And now we're going just, it's just a tiny little step, but it's me bringing emotion in, by showing you sincere interest about your work and you bringing emotion out in the answer that you're going to give. And this is where this entire process that we're talking about of going vertical is so Bulletproof, because you make that first step into the cave by asking an emotionally charged question, like, what are summers like in Toronto? What is that like now here's the cool thing. So you make that small little step. And if the other person doesn't want to follow, because that is not something they like to talk about, maybe the summer is in Toronto. I have never been either. Maybe they're always like really rainy and they don't want to talk about it. Guess what? They're going to give you a very short answer, and they're not going to follow you into the cave, which is perfectly fine.

Speaker 1: You just move to the next lateral question. And maybe now they're talking about their favorite hobby. And again, you're like, Hey, what do you like most about wakeboarding? Like what's what do you find? So amazing about that. And so, again, you're probing deeper, you're going vertical and maybe they bite there. Maybe then they're like, oh no, this is a cave I want to go in. So, so you you're leading all follow let's. Let's go that route. So, so this is the slow transition into vulnerability that is really Bulletproof because if the person doesn't want to follow you, just go to the next

Speaker 2: Question. That's right. That's the family, occupation, recreation and dreams, or the Ford acronym, which you probably heard on past small talk episodes that leads to very surface level conversation. And what Michael was talking about is it's okay to go surface until you can find some emotional context to relate on. And then we go vertical and let's be honest, not everyone is ready to go vertical all of the time. Not everyone is ready to get vulnerable. So we like to think of it as like casting. If you're fishing, right, you throw the hook out there, you see how they react. If they're not interested in that conversational hook or those vertical questions, you simply skim over the top and move to another one of those subjects until you can really find that emotion to connect and resonate on. And how do we find that emotion? You know, we hear this time and time again from our bootcamp participants. I'm boring. I don't have interesting stories. I don't know about these emotions. It made me happy. It made me sad. And we like to think of emotions as painting with watercolor. You want to add more emotion to your conversation, more emotion to your storytelling. That's the magic. So how do we do that,

Speaker 3: Johnny? Before we get there, I want to go over the idea of casting. And I want our audience to look at it as casting you, every time you cast your, your line into lake doesn't mean just because you cast it in that you're going to get a bite and you're going to throw out, go use one of those ice breaker questions. You'll use the Ford acronym of family, occupation, recreation, and dreams. And that doesn't mean that because you've thrown it out there, that you're going to get a return on that that's that that other person is going to bite, but that's okay. Anytime you've been out fishing, you give it a few times or you go there to use the baseball as another analogy of going up, add that. Sometimes you're going to get a hit and sometimes not. But what's important is that you throw your line out a few times, testing the waters to see what comes back.

Speaker 3: If we're looking at our conversation to go from lateral movements to vertical movements, right? We want to enhance the good feelings that are already happening. And we do this with yes, and we do this with matching the energy. And we, we allow the questioning. I mean, ag brought up the Ford acronym, family, occupation, recreation dreams. Those are questions about those subjects are easy. They're relatable. And they're, they're very exciting. So we're going to be discussing the subjects in the Ford acronym or any of the icebreaking questions that get small talk movement. It's apparent that when you are looking to go vertical, you're not using why questions. You're asking questions that will enhance the emotions that they're already feeling and allow them to open up and continue being vulnerable. Going deeper. If you ask a why question. So for instance, we were using the barista, um, job, right? So what is it that you do? Oh, I'm a barista. Why do you like that line of work? Or w why did you get into that line of work? Well, that, that triggers them into now rationalizing their behaviors and thoughts and actions around that line of work. And this is what we're trying to avoid, right? So w skipping the why questions and go to, what is it about that line of work that you enjoy so much? What is fun about a regular day going into making everyone's most favorite, most important drink of the day.

Speaker 2: And we know that those vertical questions will break anyone out of their autopilot. So don't be discouraged if it takes a beat for someone to answer your vertical question. Like what's so fun about being a barista, guess what? They probably haven't heard that question before. So it's going to take them a second or two to really think through that answer. But those are the magical moments in compelling conversations where people snap out of their autopilot and they actually engage with their emotional sense. And they start to think about what's truly enjoyable and exciting in their life. And then they share it with you. So now they've shared something, that's excited them, and they're going to remember that feeling of excitement tied to you. And we've just created a compelling, captivating, charismatic conversation out of a simple, small talk strategy that everyone has heard

Speaker 3: Before. So let's give a few examples here. AIG, what do you do for a living?

Speaker 2: Oh, I run a restaurant.

Speaker 3: Ah, and how do you enjoy it? Yeah, that's pretty fun, man. I can only imagine sitting down thinking of decor and the food and the emotions that you want to elicit, and the experience that you want to give people goes from not only the food, but walking into there, into that restaurant. And if you can turn them on through the, the core, the food, the energy you are going to not only have a patron for life, you're going to have a friend for life.

Speaker 2: There's nothing better than watching our customers leave the restaurant, smiling after the great experience they had with the atmosphere and the food.

Speaker 3: No, here's what I wanted to pull this, this interaction apart. I gave a J the question, a J answers restaurant tour. I give them another question. What is that line of work? This is now the vertical right now. And the answer I got back was, ah, I like it. And what happened? I realized that I wasn't going to get much from AAJ. So I go ahead and answered that question. I used excitement emotions, and I built a narrative of what that sort of work would mean to me. And now, because I shared, I walked into the cave that, that evokes emotions from AAJ, and now he feels compelled to share what he likes from it, because I've, I've already added to how I felt. And this goes back to a few episodes ago where I talked about the imaginary jelly bean jar between me and the person that you're speaking to in this case, it's going to be Aja.

Speaker 3: And I threw a jelly bean in as a question AGA just threw a jelly bean back, and it wasn't very much to go on. So I threw another jelly bean in hoping that he's going to throw some more in and he did. And he just matched that jelly bean. So I started throwing in the verticals, right? I started throwing it more and more jelly beans tilled. It got to the point where now AIG felt compelled to give me his position, his side, why he enjoys it so much. And we got to that place because I shared

Speaker 2: That's so key. If you find that you're ending up in conversational, dead ends, or you're not getting a response, answer your own question and share that excitement and enthusiasm. And you will see that actually powers through any moments of silence. You might be thinking it's awkward. You can pay for that right over with some excitement and some energy. And you will not miss a beat conversationally. As we say all the time on the show, the stronger frame dissolves the weaker one. So if you're bringing the energy, you're bringing the enthusiasm, you're answering your own questions. Sure enough, the person you're having a conversation with is going to start to pick up pace, pick up speed and match you because you're adding to, and when we're giving value, we're adding that energy and emotion into the conversation. That's how we transition out of small, talk into compelling conversation in

Speaker 3: Order to lead in any conversation, you first need to find the gift of gab on your own. Now, I love using that term, the gift, the guy, because for a lot of people, their first responses, I don't have the gift of gab. I wasn't gifted with gap. And, and I can understand why you might say that. And when I was younger, I would say the same thing about myself. And I know AIJ here has said it about himself. However, you can develop the gift of gab and how do you develop the gift of gab in a meaningful way so that when you are talking, people are going to listen and it's just not. You bragging and boasting about yourself. Well, it's about processing your experiences and it's not about how do I Bullhorn my experiences. So everyone knows about the things that I've done. It's not about the things that you've done.

Speaker 3: It's about what you have gotten from the things that you've done, what you've learned from the things that you've done. How are you a better person because of the things you've done, which means that you've sat there. You thought about those experiences and you extracted the good from them, the lessons, the insights, the takeaways. If you were to have that experience again, what would you be doing differently? This is how you've known. You processed your experiences and you've gained something from them. And here's, what's great. This is what the gift of gab comes down to. If you do the work to process your experiences, and there's many different ways of going about that, and we'll get to that in just a bit, but once you've done that and you have your answers and you have what you gained, your insights, your takeaways, you will feel compelled to share them with your friends and family and anyone who will listen. And now you're not only, you're not talking about all the cool stuff you did and how cool you are. You are talking about mistakes, blunders, uh, everything that is under the experience umbrella that led you to this moment and why you have the value that you do and why you're going to be able to lead or a holder solution for the person you're talking to. These

Speaker 2: Experiences all have emotions tied to them, and that's why processing them and taking out the good from them allows you not only to have stories to add, but also to start understanding the different emotions that you felt and experienced. And when others express those emotions, you now are instantly relatable. And when you're instantly relatable, that's how you create compelling conversation. That's how you build your charisma. That's how people remember you. And we hear it from our clients all the time. And that's, what's so amazing about bootcamp is at some point during the weekend, they find their gift of gab. It's always been inside of you, but for whatever reason, self judgment, the inner critic, imposter syndrome, whatever it is that monologue going on inside of you, that said, that's not interesting enough. Oh, I shouldn't say that. Oh, that's probably not going to receive the laugh that I thought you've created a shell.

Speaker 2: And that shell has kept you from the compelling conversations that you want to have. That's right with you not looking inside and you not processing these experiences, you've robbed yourself of the ability to communicate them effectively, to create the relationships you're looking for to close the deals, to get promoted, to get the date. So it's so important that you process these experiences pull out the good, the learnings and the emotions. So as your laterally, casting those questions, and you start to take one of those topics, vertical or deep, you have a motion to add that conversation. So Johnny, you mentioned one or two of the ways that we can process these experiences in a meaningful way as mindfulness and journaling. How do either of those really help us unpack and dig into all of the gold in these experiences

Speaker 3: For myself? I like journaling. It has been a latest addition to my experiences and how I process them that, and I've been doing that for years now. And I keep a open pages just on my phone for that very thing. When I get overwhelmed with emotions, I jot them down. What I feeling, why am I feeling, uh, how, how I might go about dealing with I'm, what I'm feeling in that moment. And of course I could go back to that, look at those emotions and then pull from it, what I had learned so that I am better moving forward. Journaling is a great way to do it. You can also process your experiences by prac with mindfulness practices, so that you are allowing yourself a view of your experiences as they, as they rush past and in your stream of consciousness, and basically reliving that experience and then pulling from it, your learnings, the things that are going to allow you to be better and what you were feeling, all of these things, the lessons learned, the emotions you were feeling. They are the verticals in which you are going to connect with other people. Why? Because everyone experiences learning, everyone, experiences, being overwhelmed, everyone experiences being scared, and everyone kidding can discuss the experience of failing. And there's nothing better than a redemption story. The Phoenix rising from the ashes. Here's how I blew it the first time. Here's what I took from it. And here's why I'm able to help on this subject because I now have that experience.

Speaker 2: And here's the thing reliving these experiences, whether journaling or mindfully can pull up emotions that maybe you didn't even feel the first time, or you didn't even recognize in that memory. You know, there's a silly video up above of me being deathly afraid, lining into loom. And now when I think about that experience, different emotions come up for me and different thoughts about pushing through discomfort and realizing that the payoff on the other side of that zip line is the exhilaration of flying through the air. Had I listened to my internal voice in that fear and I didn't clip in, I wouldn't have had that shared experience with our bootcamp alumni in an amazing city. Every single moment in your life is worth reflecting on that's right. And the more you spend time in self-reflection, the more you understand the experiences and the emotions you've been through, the easier it is to share the easier it is to take a step into that cave. It's supercharging your light bulb inside of your flashlight so that you can allow other people in conversation to feel those emotions, to get excited about what's being shared and to relate to you. And the more expressive you are, the more relatable you are and

Speaker 1: Your role also building happiness, not only in yourself, but also in the person that you are talking with and the group standing around you, that's listening in to that great conversation you guys are having, and actually found a really interesting study that was done in 2010. I was done by Martinez male and his team. And it's called eavesdropping on happiness. Well-being is related to having less small talk and more substantive conversations and substantive conversations. That's a fancy linguist term for bigger talk, going deeper. That's where the happiness lies, not when the stone skips over the lake, when everything becomes more emotional and more charged with good emotions and experiences and personality,

Speaker 3: There will times where you might think that you're not getting a bite on your questions, and you're going to have to answer them yourself. You're going to have to walk into the cave to show that it's totally okay. And this is what it's going to be about. That we're, it's, it's about discovery and it's about us discovering together. And you're going to need in leading, you're going to have to start expressing and processing and talking about your experiences. Now you may feel that you're the only one doing the talking and you, and that might freak you out. You might think, oh, I'm just here bragging, or it's coming off as boasting. It's just be talking about myself. And the other person is standing there and they're looking at you, they're engaged. They just don't have anything to offer. Number one, not everyone is able or has done the work to process their own experiences to where they are compelled to share them.

Speaker 3: And if they're at that point, that's fine. They're only going to learn and get more comfortable by you sharing your experiences. And if leading the charge may seem awkward and it may seem difficult, but it may just be what needs to be done. And this is an opportunity for you to practice this. And just as a side note, how do we understand this? And see this in our daily lives, as somebody who handles all of the art of charm social media, I get messages all the time from people who enjoy the work we're doing and who liked the videos that I make, or who's, who's going to be listening to this podcast or how this YouTube video struck them in a way and change their way of looking at a problem they've had. And they, and it is gave them the answer. And I will have not have recognized these names.

Speaker 3: And these people say they've been listening and watching us for years. So how come we're not exposed to them? How come we don't know these people? Well, because their rate of engagement is that of what we call and online world is the lurkers. And there's plenty of people who engage, but who are maybe a bit intimidated or fear. They have nothing to add. That's okay. We need those folks as well. And there is a lot of them and we want all those people to find their voice. And it's going to take different amounts of time. The thing that you can do is to make sure that you're leading your sharing, and then when they do contribute, right, they are rewarded. They get confirmation, right? They see your excitement.

Speaker 2: And that's one of the reasons that I love bootcamp so much because over the weekend we simulate these high pressure social interactions. So you are going to be in conversation and challenge in bootcamp where someone doesn't have a lot to add someone isn't being expressive, someone isn't taking those vertical questions. And how do you handle it in those moments? And in bootcamp, we believe and ascribe to the idea of train hard, fight, easy. We do these drills and exercises inside of the bootcamp all weekend long so that your putting yourself out there becoming more expressive, but you're also handling all of the tension and pressure and anxiety that comes with that stressful sales call that comes with that pitch deck meeting or that job interview, or that first date. You've practiced it in a safe environment, got feedback from me, Johnny and the coaches. You've also practiced it with your classmates who are working on developing these same skills.

Speaker 2: And then we go out in Las Vegas and you practice it with everyone else you're meeting on the street or out and about. And by the end of that weekend, you have over 200 plus experiences of going through these exact questions, understanding vertical versus horizontal questioning and how to make that small talk smart talk. So if you're interested in joining us for a weekend in Las Vegas, we have three on the calendar this year, check out the art of charm.com/bootcamp and apply today. Now understanding the importance of small talk. It creates opportunities in your life. It's not to be skipped over, but those opportunities come from your ability to transition out of small talk. So the biggest myth that we dispelled today was that it's just something that happens binary, that you're either in small talk or you're in deep talk. And that's just not the case.

Speaker 2: Instead, we taught you a simple strategy of horizontal questioning versus vertical questioning and allowing the conversation to get more vertical through vulnerability. And that vulnerability starts with you sharing emotions and becoming more expressive in your conversation. So if you enjoyed this show, smash the subscribe button, stop lurking, add a comment or two, or ask us a question we're so excited to hear from you. We want to keep dropping more amazing toolbox content like this. We want to hear how you put these small talk in transition on a small talk strategies into practice in your life. And if you're struggling with small talk today, head on over to the art of charm.com/smalltalk for our cheat sheet, with that incredible conversation, formula and great questions, you can ask to strike up a conversation anywhere, anytime with anyone.

Speaker 4: [inaudible]

Speaker 2: The secret to captivating smalltalk, head over to the art of charm.com/smalltalk to grab our free cheat sheet full of strategies and tips to help you have more captivating, small talk, and create more opportunities in your life. Thousands have already downloaded this free cheat sheet@theartofcharm.com slash small talk. Now this week, we want to give a shout out to Catarina Albrecht for taking our charisma code live stream from our Facebook group into politics and using AOC principles to improve her community

Speaker 3: AGA and I have been going live weekly covering lessons directly from our programs and podcasts to help you unlock your X-Factor so that you may begin the track, the right people, opportunities and lifestyle that you've dreamed for yourself.

Speaker 2: Last week, we discussed our charisma code, the three factors that build and grow your hidden charisma and how you can boost it to become a magnet of curiosity and interest in any room. Imagine how you will handle a presentation, a networking event, or even a date when your, the prize in everyone's eyes, join us today and check it out inside of our private Facebook group@theartofcharm.com slash challenge, we are excited to kick off more toolbox episodes this year. And we want to hear from you, what topics do you want us to tackle on an upcoming podcast episode? Let us know inside of our Facebook community, join today@theartofcharm.com slash challenge. Before we wrap, could you do us in the art of charm team, a huge favor, head on over to apple podcasts and rate this show. It means the world to us, and it helps us bring on tremendous guests each and every week. The art of charm podcast is produced by Michael Harold and Eric Montgomery go out there and have an epic week

Speaker 4: [inaudible] [inaudible].

Speaker 1: Today, Johnny and Michael are joining me to give you one simple trick to make all of your small talk more captivating. So let's jump right in. Welcome back to the art of charm podcast. The show designed to help you skyrocket your career, develop deeper relationships and unlock your hidden charisma. We know you have what it takes to reach your full potential. And every week we share with you interviews and strategies to help you transform your life by helping you unlock your X factor, whether you're in sales, project management, building client relationships, or looking for love, we got what you need. You shouldn't

Speaker 2: Have to settle for anything less than extraordinary.

Speaker 1: I'm AIJ. And I'm Johnny. This episode is all around small talk, but don't Bach because small talk is the key ingredient to get you ridiculous results in sales, romance, and networking. If you have an adverse reaction to small talk, it's probably because you've never developed it to a level where it provides you all the information you need to close that multi-million dollar deal. Ask that person out that gives you butterflies or create opportunities for future ventures that will unlock all that magical luck in your life. So if you're ready, grab your notebook and let's kick off the show. Now on our last toolbox episode, around emotional bids, we put together a little screensaver for you to download in thousands of people grab their screensaver. So we thought it'd be fun to make a little cheat sheet. First, small talk. So head to the art of charm.com/smalltalk to grab our smalltalk cheat sheet, where we're going to break down the conversation formula in today's episode, as well as give you some charismatic questions to power through those boring smalltalk conversations and make them more interesting and important.

Speaker 2: That's right. Head to the art of charm.com/small talk to get your cheese.

Speaker 1: All right, Johnny, let's kick off today's show. We have Michael joining us again for part two of our small talk toolbox. Let's kick it off. Now in a previous episode on small talk, we dispelled some myths and talked about one of the biggest mistakes that you are making when it comes to smalltalk and why you may find it boring uninteresting, or you just may be ineffective at actually creating the conversations that you want today. Johnny and Michael are joining me to discuss with you a simple trick that we can use to make our small talk captivating and allow you to instantly connect with anyone. So we're excited to dig into some science today and give you one of our time tested strategies straight from our bootcamp training that we teach to all of our coaching clients. So you can break out of boring, small talk and start having the conversations that you really want to have with strangers, friends, and family.

Speaker 1: So let's jump right in. Now, we got to start with our conversation formula because one of the things that we noticed in the last 15 years of running in-person training in our bootcamps, as well as online coaching in our X-Factor program is that many of us struggle with how to manage smalltalk and make it more exciting and fun for both the person we're talking to and ourselves. And in our video work in our bootcamp program, we're actually film you interacting with our coaches in smalltalk scenarios. We found time and time. Again, people just ran out of things to say they didn't really know how to lead and steer the conversation into more exciting topics. And of course, that led to both our coaches and our clients frustrated in conversation going nowhere. So we came up with a simple conversation formula that you can use in any situation I'm talking grocery store or shopping mall on a date, or just on the street corner, waiting for the light to change to cross. And this allows you to engage strangers in a much more meaningful way and hopefully create the conversations that are no longer

Speaker 2: Boring Aja. Before we get started with the conversation formula, I also want to lay out what problem the conversation formula solves. And this problem is one that all of us deal with from time to time, especially if there's tension and pressure on the interaction. So maybe you're meeting somebody for the first time, maybe you're on your first date or zoom meeting with somebody that you find attractive. Maybe you're just trying to break the ice in the cells and get to know your customer so that they would open up a bed. So you can get more information about them to be able to sell to them. Now, the problem that we're going to fix that the conversation format is going to fix is not having anything to say. And it devolving into a Terra gate of questioning. We all know that questions allow us to say something, but it also puts the pressure on the work on the other person to answer.

Speaker 2: So if I ask somebody a question, they're going to have to give me an answer. If I ask them another question, they're going to have to give me an answer. And you would think, well, doesn't that solve the problem? It's not the problem of asking the questions. It's the problem of asking too many questions you see, when you get nervous, it's easy to get stuck in what we call the question train, because you get stuck in your head. You're nervous. You're under pressure. There's a lot of tension on the interaction. This forces you to self sooth. So it forces you to go inward and then also into your head. So you're, now, if you get a question out, they're going to answer, but your brain is working on what to say next, and it's going to be easier for you to go. What is the next question I can ask?

Speaker 2: So now, rather than listening to the answer from the other person, you miss their answer and you're also in your head looking for another question and you blurt that out. Now, the problem comes when you ask too many questions in a row, the conversation collapses on itself because the other person who is in attention, stress pressure, filled situation of meeting you for the first time as now has the added pressure of having to answer all your questions. And you can only throw out so many questions in a row before the other person starts to fill extra tension of pressure, put on them. And they start to realize that they're putting in all the work, they're answering all your questions. And by the time you get to three, four questions in the row, they're feeling awkward. They're feeling interrogated

Speaker 1: And it's not your fault. We're huge fans of Dale. Carnegie's book how to win friends and influence people. And we've all heard. We just need to be more interested in the other person to become interesting. It's great advice, but it's not practical because what ends up happening is you take interest by asking more and more questions and stacking all of this pressure on the other person. But those questions don't solve the riddle to effective small talk, because you're not disclosing any information about yourself. And of course a stranger is going to be backpedaling. If they're telling you their favorite car, what their favorite sports team is, how they feel about the weather, where they work, how many kids they have, and you can see after a few minutes of conversation, well, there's an imbalance in how much you know about the other person versus how much they know about you.

Speaker 1: So we're taking that old advice from Dale Carney. Yes, you should be interested to be more interesting, but we're actually making it practical with our formula so that you can do it in a more impactful way and actually enjoy small talk. Because as we talked about in the last episode, enjoying small talk is very important for you to convey the right emotions to make you captivate again exciting. And we now know there's so many opportunities for you to turn smalltalk into connection. If you have the skill in your back pocket to make small talk more fun. And as you know, we love science here. So Michael, there's a study that backs this up around the importance of self-disclosure and why we can't just rely on questions to make small talk captivating. Yes, that's right.

Speaker 3: There's a lot of research around this. And my favorite comes from Sydney SRR and he writes and the self-disclosure and experimental analysis for the transparent self disclosure begets disclosure. So let me explain this. What he found is that a stranger is much more likely to share something personal with you. If you share something personal first, they are even more likely to share something personal than your close connections. Let me say that again, a stranger is more likely to share something personal with you than your close connections. And the reason for that is that when we engage with someone we don't know are actually two levels to this. The first one is that if you engage with someone you don't know, you'll automatically explain a little bit more. You mentioned things that with a close connection, you might not necessarily bring to the, to the forefront again, because you assume often wrongly that the other person thinks about this right now. And the other reason is that you tend to explain more and be more open yourself as well. And here it gets, here's where it gets really interesting and counterintuitive. Here's where it gets interesting and counterintuitive. This doesn't work when you're sharing facts. This only works if you're sharing emotions, but we'll get to that in the second part of what we have to share with you guys today. So let's talk about the conversation formula and how we can get out of this.

Speaker 1: So during our video work in bootcamp, one of our coaches came up to me and said, I find the same conversation happening over and over and over again. And we need to figure out a way to get our clients to stop asking so much questions, because I feel like I'm under a spotlight. Like I'm being interrogated as if I did something wrong and I don't think or feel that they actually care about my answers. So think about that for a second. If all you're doing is asking question after question, the other person starts to feel like, well, I can say anything. I could say, I love unicorns. And I was born on the moon. Aja is not doing anything with my responses. So we have to treat their answers to our questions with care and actually start to relate to their responses because what they're doing and giving us their answer is they're opening up conversational threads for us to explore and have fun with.

Speaker 1: So let's set the conversation formula because this is such a powerful skill to have on your tool belt. And it's so easy to apply everywhere in your life with every conversation. You're going to see the magic happen immediately when you follow this formula. So what do we do? We ask a question, right? We talked about it. Questions are great. They get the other person to open up and we're all wired as humans to help one another. So you've been stopped on the street with some stranger asking you for directions to the nearest Starbucks or what the time is, or how do I get to this gas station? I'm lost those questions. Even if we don't know someone at all, and we're in a hurry, we'll often stop to help a fellow human. It's just hard wired into our DNA and our survival mechanism to support one another because we're community creatures. So questions compel the other person to give you an answer versus just walking up to someone and making a statement like the weather's great. Well, if I make the statement, the weather's great that person standing at the stoplight could assume I'm talking to myself. Maybe I'm talking on my phone. I have my earbuds in. It's very easy for that person to assume that statement wasn't towards them. So a question is actually a very pointed way to start a conversation with a stranger. You're asking them for some bit of information,

Speaker 2: Want to add right there. You use the word that if you ask a question, it would compel them to answer. And that's exactly right. Most people are very friendly and more obliged you in answering that question. But remember it compels them. There is a nudge. That question is a nudge for them to answer. Go ahead.

Speaker 1: And we tested this in times square in union square in New York city, arguably one of the most difficult places on the planet to strike up conversations with strangers. You've probably heard how unfriendly new Yorkers are. We've used this in Vienna with Michael. So this question to start a conversation with strangers, universally works because of what Johnny just pointed out. Now, what are the questions? Because the questions are important here. These are not yes or no questions. We're not asking. Did you do you can, you were asking slightly open-ended questions. What are you drinking? Who are you with? Where are you from? These are questions that require an answer. That's more than just a yes or a no, or a grunt or a nod. Okay. That's a really important distinction here. And we actually spoke with Dr. Carol Robin at Stanford recently on an interview. And she said, we want to avoid the why questions. And especially in small talk, because why questions put people on the defensive? All right. So we're talking about who, what, where, when, how questions, those are great questions to ask someone for the first time to strike up that conversation. And it's an important first step in our conversation formula. So age, I want

Speaker 2: To put a quick example here. You're having a drink at the bar and you decided to start talking to the person next to you and you strike up a conversation and you ask, Oh, so what is it that you do for a living? Oh, well they answer back. I'm a nurse. Now the closed ended question is, do you enjoy that line of work?

Speaker 1: Well, yes I do.

Speaker 2: Now you have to find yourself another question because the conversation is dead. So rather than asking, do you like that line of work? What if you ask, what is it about that line of work you enjoy so much, do you see and how they now have to think about a few different reasons and you're focusing them on what they enjoy about their line of work. So you've also put them in a positive state where they can now begin to give you a few reasons about why they cherish being enough.

Speaker 1: The thing with question trainers, that I very often get emails from people that listen to the podcast. And whenever they talk about their skill at small talk, which is usually fairly low, if non-existent their number one question is Michael. I always run out of questions. What are some more questions I could ask, which is pun intended, the wrong question to ask. This is where the question answer statement comes in and we've probably all heard of the Ford method to small talk. These are the four topics of small talk that everyone loves to engage in. So the Ford acronym stands for family, occupation, recreation, and dreams. So what do you do for a living? You're asking them about their occupation. What do you and your family enjoy doing on the weekends? You're now bringing up family and you're also talking about recreation. So the Ford method still works, right?

Speaker 1: It's great topics, but we're striking up that conversation with the question. That's the key because it gets the other person to open up. And it really shows us very quickly if this person wants to have small talk, right? Instead of making statements, blurting things out, reading can lines that you have found on the internet. All we have to really do is put on our thinking hat and get a little bit more curious about the other person. And all of a sudden, we're going to start to see conversational threads appear out of thin air. Now, the second part of our equation, we've asked the question. We have to listen to their answer. And as Johnny pointed out, this is often very difficult for us. If we're feeling a little bit of anxiety, we're feeling unsure of ourselves. And we're trying to think about the next perfect thing to say, if you're doing that and you're anticipating their response, you're not actually to their answer.

Speaker 1: And this is a pitfall that many of our clients fall into in this video work exercise in bootcamp, where they have a question they've thought about it. And they start to anticipate what the person's going to say in response. So they can start thinking about, Oh, now I know what the next step is going to be. And inevitably, they don't hear the answer they were anticipating. And we do that as a way to practice difficult conversations. But oftentimes with strangers, they're not going to give you the answer that you're anticipating. So let's not get ahead of ourselves and start thinking about the next thing we could ask. And the next thing we could say, if we stick to the formula, we have to treat their answer as gold. Their answer is what we are in the third step going to relate to. So we've asked the question, we listened to their answer question.

Speaker 1: Plus answer equals drum roll, please. A statement. This is what we actually disclose something about ourselves. We can answer our own question. We can talk specifically and relate to their answer, or we can make a non-sequitur based on something that their answer provided or made us think about. But either way, our response is not another question. I want to share something for our most analytical and probably perceptive listeners, which is the question we get all the time. How can I make a statement if I don't know anything about what they just shared? Guess what you not knowing about that is a statement I've never been to Vienna. Oh man, I've actually never stayed in Las Vegas. I had no idea. There are entire facades of cities and fake Eiffel towers. And then ask another question. You're allowed to say, I don't know. I have never, uh, I've never watched a football game.

Speaker 1: I've never played basketball. That's okay, too. That level of disclosure, as Michael shared earlier in the science allows the other person to feel comfortable, disclosing something and getting more vulnerable. But so many of us, we go into small talk. We think I have to relate. I have to agree. I have to become someone that I'm not. And if I don't like sports, if I'm not into those things that my coworkers talk about at the water cooler, while I guess I should avoid it, I guess I shouldn't engage in it. And that's just the wrong way to look at things. When you provide someone else an opportunity to explain, to educate, to share what excites them, what they're passionate about, you actually make them happier. You create an opportunity where they feel better. Again, it's counterintuitive, but the science shows when we're helping others. And we're explaining to others when we're teaching to others and sharing our gifts, we're actually happier.

Speaker 1: So by saying you don't know something, you're providing a special moment for that person to really relish and think about what drew them to champions, league soccer. Well, actually watching games with my dad growing up really got me excited about soccer. And now you can think about a shared experience with your father. Maybe your father took you fishing. Maybe your father took you hunting. That's a simple way to relate. Even if the core topic of what was chosen, doesn't seem to be something that you're interested in or you're even familiar with. So let's not fall into that pitfall. That's a common one that we hear. And there's one other pitfall that I want to point out that Johnny illustrated in that example with Michael that's, sometimes even if you have the best question, you're going to get a one word answer. You're going to get a great, you're going to get a cool, you're going to get an awesome, and in that situation, answer your own question, demonstrate for that person who might be shy, nervous, introverted, or not quite hearing exactly what you're asking, demonstrate and disclose your answer to that question.

Speaker 1: And you would be surprised just again, giving that opportunity. So we're asking a question or answering your own question. Why would I do that? Because as Michael shared, the science shows, when we disclose, we open the door to more disclosure from strangers. So you don't have to think about this. If I can only disclose around friends or people that I trust, we're actually wired to disclose more around strangers and you answering your own question, that disclosure powers the conversation. And here's the thing. What we're actually doing in the conversation formula is we're giving the other person value. Our definition of value is attention, acceptance and appreciation. We're giving them attention by listening to their answers. We're giving them acceptance by in our statements, responding to their answers, relating to their answers, accepting what they're sharing. And of course from time to time, that relation that we have might actually be appreciative in celebrating something that the other person shared with us.

Speaker 1: So these small micro interactions and small talk moments that we're having with the conversation formula, provide that opportunity for other people to feel amazing around us. And by Angelou has that famous quote that so many of us go back to people don't remember what you say. They don't remember what you do. They just remember how you made them feel. So if you make them feel heard, if you make them feel connected, if you make them feel appreciated, they are going to remember you for the right reasons. And so many of us, again, as we talked about in the previous smalltalk episode, have this idea implanted in our brain that small talk has to be boring. Small talk is boring. We label it as boring. We try to jump over it and skip it entirely. It only serves us. If we don't take that, if we actually bring some enthusiasm and excitement and energy into these conversations.

Speaker 1: So words matter as you know of the art of charm, but also are body language, our vocal tonality, and the way we express those words matter. So when we're in small talk, we want to talk about how important it is to be expressing excitement, enthusiasm, and engagement in our body language, in our room, the answers to their questions and statements, because that's what really connects us. And those emotional States stand out and people remember it. And sometimes they'll even give you your wallet back. If they pickpocketed it as humans, we relate emotionally, and we will often mirror the emotions that other people around us are sharing. So that's why the conversation formula has to be delivered with enthusiasm, excitement, and engagement, to showcase to the other person that you actually care about their answers. Now in the 1990s, a number of studies fleshed out the concept of emotional contagion.

Speaker 1: The idea is that humans synchronized with the emotions of those around them, either unconsciously or consciously. And typically we may even mimic other people's expressions, vocalizations, and movements, even absolute strangers. So at its most basic level, if someone smiles at you, you often will smile back and in turn, it makes both of you happy. So we want, she used this exact concept to our advantage. When we're asking that question, we're smiling, we're making eye contact. We are showcasing the positive emotion. We want the other person to feel and embody and mirror back to us. That's what makes small talk captivating. I had my arms crossed my eyes looking down and I looked with a furrowed brow now and said, what are you drinking? Michael? I'm gonna get a much different response than a big smile saying, what are you drinking Alex? Really good. So you have to remember that our emotional state conveyed in the conversation formula is going to be mirrored back at us.

Speaker 1: So if you find yourself asking questions and not getting warm responses, not getting positive responses like we demonstrated earlier, odds are, you're probably not expressing those warm and positive emotions, which we see time and time again, in our bootcamp video work sizes internally, you may be feeling over the moon excited, but a lot of us have become so stoic and stern in our facial expressions and our responses and in our body language that we're not conveying that warmth and positive energy. When we deliver that question, when we strike up a conversation. So if that's a pitfall that you're facing, you've done the formula. You've listened to this podcast. You've taken notes diligently, and you're excited to use it, but you're not getting that warmth and response odds are, you got to look at your body language and the emotions you're conveying when you are asking those questions, when you are giving your statements back in response, because they may not be conveying the message that you want. And certainly not making you memorable.

Speaker 3: Now this stuff you don't have to get perfect right now, what you're thinking right now is the first time I'm going to try this. I'm going to, Oh, I'm to know what I'm doing. I'm going to screw it up a little bit. Listen, you don't have to be perfect at this. Just bringing this in a little bit is going to make your conversations, your small talk so much better than before. So don't let perfection be the enemy of good right train. And here's how we want you to train this because the amazing thing is that while it's easy to practice with strangers, you can practice with everyone. So the next time you call your best friend, the next time you sit together with your partner, the next time you go for a walk and you talk to that person at the pedestrian crossing, bring in the statement and introduce it there and just practice around with it. This is something to have fun with. This is not something to get 150% perfect all the time. So next phone call, maybe have a post-it note next to your phone that says, make statements. Um, maybe the next time you're on a soon call, you have this post-it note next to your monitor that says make statements. And the next time you would talk with your family, make statements.

Speaker 1: So to recap, the most important thing that we want you to understand is the science behind self-disclosure and why counter-intuitively, we will actually share more with strangers than our close friends. Often assuming that our close friends and family already know this information, but with strangers, we're more likely to actually self disclose. And that's what we use that science in our conversation formula to allow you to have captivating small talk, when we're disclosing with strangers, it begets more disclosure from them. So it's a great way for us to actually start having great conversations with the people that we're meeting the conversation. Formula. Super simple question, listen to their answer equals a statement from you. Even if you've never experienced it. You may not be familiar with what they're talking about, or that's just not one of your favorite things to do. Letting other people know that in your statement still powers that conversation forward.

Speaker 1: And certainly doesn't make it boring. The last point in all of this is if you're not bringing energy and enthusiasm, you're not using the emotional contagion to actually get the other person to mirror back that emotion. Well, you are going to be stuck in boring, small talk because your energy tells the other person that you're not interested or enthusiastic about anything that you're sharing or asking of them. And in turn, they're not going to feel willing or interested to share more with you. Now, the next toolbox episode, we're going to talk about transitioning out of small talk. So if you've listened to the last toolbox episodes, you now know some of the myths and one of the biggest mistakes you might be making with small talk. And today you got a simple strategy to make small talk more compelling and captivating

Speaker 4: [inaudible].

Speaker 2: As we said at the beginning, if you have that adverse reaction to hearing small talk, it's probably because you haven't developed those skills. However, man, this episode was action packed and everything in this show will go to help those

Speaker 1: Well, we know hope is not a strategy. And if you don't have a plan going into small talk or a formula for success, waiting around for opportunities to strike you is not going to lead to you reaching your full potential. I know in the past I struggled with small talk because I labeled it as boring and I avoided it. And hopefully today's toolbox episode gave you some key science-backed strategies to finally start enjoying small talk and open up a world of possibility. We got a shout out this week, right? Johnny?

Speaker 2: Absolutely. We want to give a shout out to Jason and our X-Factor accelerator program. Jason has been crushing it at work, but too hard on himself lately. And our core confidence coaching inside the X-Factor accelerator program allowed him to see key insights that were hidden in his blind spots. Last Saturday, he made a huge realization about his inner critic that finally unlocked his X factor. He won over a few key colleagues with his new attitude and grew his influence in the department so that they had begged him to finally apply to the dream role. He's always pine for it, never thought he was able to get so thank you, Jason, for all your hard work and putting your new, emotional intelligence training to good use. We can't wait to see what the next stage of your career

Speaker 1: Are you stuck in your career? Are you not as far along as you should be or even worse where you passed over for that promotion that you know you deserve. We know it takes more than hard work to get ahead. When you unlock your X factor like Jason, you have the ability to influence, persuade and build meaningful relationships to take your career to that next level. Well, perhaps it's time to shake up your life and challenge yourself with our X-Factor accelerator program. It's a year long mentorship with me, Johnny and the entire art of charm team and a fantastic network of top performers like Jason, ready to help support you reach full potential. It's time for you to make the commitment to change today. Let us guide you into discovering your X factor, head on over to unlock your X factor.com and apply today. That's unlock your X-Factor dot com.

Speaker 1: Join us today, and we'll be shouting you out on the show next week. We hope you enjoyed this toolbox episode. We're bringing more toolboxes to the podcast this year, and we want to hear from you, what topics do you want us to tackle on upcoming podcast episodes, email us@questionsattheartofcharm.com or find us on social media at the art to charm on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter, to let us know what you want help with before we go, could you do us and the team here at the art of charm, a huge favor, open up Apple podcasts and rate this show. We've been getting some phenomenal reviews lately and it really means the world to us. The art of charm podcast is produced by Michael Harold and Eric Montgomery until next week. I'm Johnny and I'm Aja. And don't forget to grab your small talk cheat sheet@theartofcharm.com slash smalltalk.

Speaker 4: [inaudible].

Speaker 1: Welcome back to the art of charm podcast, a show designed to help you win at work love, and life. Now we know you have what it takes to reach your full potential, and that's why every week, Johnny and I share with you interviews and strategies to help you develop the right social skills and mindsets to succeed.

Speaker 2: That's right. And you shouldn't have to settle for anything less than extraordinary. I'm AIJ and I'm Johnny

Speaker 1: Bootcamp is back Johnny and we are so excited to be kicking off weekend experiences and none other than your new hometown, uh, Las Vegas.

Speaker 2: That's right. And there's no better way to see a city than an artist charm bootcamp. We go out, you're walking the street, you're talking with people. And I get to say that Las Vegas is the center of socialization and America. If not the

Speaker 1: World. Absolutely. This weekend experience is fully hands-on and experiential. We're talking social skills, drills and exercises in classroom, including being filmed, breaking down body language, conversation skills and more. And then we're going to take those skills out into the main streets of Las Vegas. We're going to be going out together, working on developing your social skills for success. If you want to learn more head to the art of charm.com/bootcamp. And we only have a handful of plan this year and seats are limited

Speaker 2: [inaudible] programs are designed so that the skills and curriculum sticks with you for years after your program, this speaks to the transformation that will come with spending a weekend here in Vegas.

Speaker 1: That's right, Johnny, over the last 15 years, we've trained thousands of clients in our in-person experiences and we can't wait to bring them back. So if you're looking to finally supercharge those social skills and unlock that confidence in yourself, we'll head on over to the art of charm.com/bootcamp to apply today. Now today's toolbox episode is all about the one biggest mistake you are making during small talk. We know the world is reopening. Everyone is starting to go back out and socialize, and we want to make sure you have the skills to succeed. This episode is dedicated to small talk. It doesn't have to be boring. It doesn't have to be on eventful and it certainly needs to be more impactful. So if you might have avoided small talk, you viewed it as boring, or you'd just want to strengthen this skill. Then keep listening. We have our head coach Michael on board to break down the science and give you a simple strategy to take that small talk to the next level. Thanks for joining us, Michael, John and I are excited to dig into the science behind small talk. Now, Michael, there's some really important science that we want to kick off today's episode with because many of us are not thinking about small talk in the right way. What is the science? There's actually a lot of science around this, but I picked one study because it has to do with coffee and Starbucks and love that.

Speaker 3: And this study is from 2013 and it's called is efficiency, overrated, minimal social interactions, lead to belonging and positive affect and effect. It's just a fancy term for emotions. And this was done by Tilian Sandstrom and Elizabeth Dunn. And what they did was they waited in front of a Starbucks and they asked people if they were so kind to volunteer in their little study, and if they did, they got a $5 gift card. And all of those that volunteered were put into two groups, one group was asked to be as efficient as possible. Just go in there, wait in line, or do your coffee and get out. And the other group was asked to have a what's called a genuine interaction with a cashier. That's how they title it. So to go in there and you know, I have a little bit of small talk with a barista and as they came out, they were asked, Hey, how do you feel now? And what they found was that those participants that actually had an interaction with a barista felt a lot more cheerful afterwards.

Speaker 2: Well, it's nice to have the science, but we've known for our existence, that we are social creatures and even micro interactions, such as talking to your Breeza is shown to have a profound effect on our wellbeing. It makes us happier why we're signaling to others and we're getting back signals. So we're beaming out. Other people are beaming back at us. It shows us that we're alive. That we're real, that we're here. And that acknowledgement goes a long way into allowing us as human beings. The Phil's safe without that acknowledgement. It's difficult for us to grasp our reality. It's probably the first step that allows us to know that we're in the world, right? You beam out and you get a signal back. And there's this story that I've brought up before in this podcast, but I want to reset it because it goes a long way.

Speaker 2: And just how important it is for human beings to feel acknowledged. And this is a story of you and I. We were in Los Angeles. It's very well known that there is a homeless issue that is going on there. And one of the things that you might see an unstable unwell homeless person doing is they just walk out into traffic and they stopped traffic. And they're yelling at people and you see this quite common. And for a lot of people, they don't think much of it. They just see the homeless person and they think, what is this guy doing? He's obviously crazy. He should be somewhere getting cared for. He needs to get out of the road, but there's something much more profound that is going on there. And what is going on is this is a person who has been stepped over. Who's been laying in the street and has not had any acknowledgement and person after person after person has walked by without showing any acknowledgement.

Speaker 2: And if you live in Los Angeles, you're trying to keep your own situation together and focus on the task at hand and what you're doing. So you sort of block out that Travis D because you don't want to have to see it or deal with it or let it enter into your psyche. But for that person who hasn't been acknowledged, the only time that they're getting that signal back is when they walk in the traffic, they're able to stop it. And for maybe the first time that day or a few days, they have signaled out, they are being seen, they are being heard. And this is the lens at which we will go to have that acknowledgement so that we can understand where we are and what is going on.

Speaker 3: Human needs to belong. You find it in Maslow's hierarchy of needs as well, right? The need to belong is just there. And when you go into new school into a new job, the first thing you want to know is am I part of the crew? Am I accepted? And even if this is just a small conversation with just someone over coffee or in the bus, or while you wait at the checkout line at the grocery store with a little bit of small talk, you create this feeling of, Hey, we belong together. We're in the same grocery store. When the same checkout lane, we belong together, we're a part of this tribe together. And that gives us that feeling of belonging and strength.

Speaker 1: Absolutely. Right? Michael, it makes both of us happier. Now this is socially. This is romantically, and this is professionally. So whether you work in sales, whether you're on a date or you're hanging out with your spouse's friends, if you can master small talk, you make both you and the other person happier. So how many of us right now are labeling small talk as boring. You are actually diminishing the value that small talk has in your life and the impact that it has on others. And that's why we have to dispel this myth today, because I know I made that mistake in the past. I labeled smalltalk boring. And in turn, I looked at it as really inconsequential and not really a useful tool in my social toolkit. And I was robbing myself of happiness and missing out on incredible opportunities in my career, socially and even romantically.

Speaker 1: So imagine if you're able to light up your spouse's friends or your partners, friends, or maybe that potential boyfriend or girlfriend's friends, they're going to go back and say, Hey, Jay is awesome. You should date him. Oh my God. He makes me feel good. All because I invested in small talk. So this is not a skill that you want to look past. This is not something you want to label boring. This has an essential in making both you and the other person happy. And that's why we want to help you master this skill. Now, over the last 15 years, we've worked with thousands of people in person in our boot camps, corporations, military, special operators, and even CEOs and executives all because they understand the value of small talk and mastering this skill. So now that we've dispelled that myth, that it doesn't have to be boring. It actually can make us and the other person happy. Let's talk about maybe some other things that you're thinking about smalltalk that are keeping you from being successful socially.

Speaker 2: There's a reason why people call it boring. And the reason that people call it boring is because if you're not used to it, if it's not something that comes naturally to you or that you go out of your way to do on a regular basis, it's uncomfortable. And anything that is uncomfortable, we label it something that we can determine that we don't need to do. So if we're uncomfortable speaking with people that we don't know that we label it as boring or in consequential and awkward, and now I don't have to participate in it, I have labeled it. It has a bad connotation. And now because of that, and that's the way I view it, it is now something to avoid, but at the same time, I'm also hurting my own happiness, my own wellbeing, because it is a basic function of being a human being, which is the acknowledgement that it provides.

Speaker 1: That's absolutely right. Think about it as delivering a small gift of happiness to everyone you meet, and you will change that mindset going into every interaction and smalltalk plays a very important role. And that's called synchronicity, right? Michael? Yeah.

Speaker 3: It's the idea of synchronizing conversation partners and the best way to explain this as maybe if you imagine the pandemic is over and you meet me at a party because I'm going to be super happy and I'm going to bounce with energy. Now, I don't know where you are when you come to that party. Let's imagine there's Michael. He's super happy to be finally out of the house, super high energy. But I run into someone who on that Friday just had a little bit of a bad day at work. Maybe that person, you know, had a bad discussion with a teammate or the numbers, weren't that good? So now you have high energy, super happy. Michael, starting a conversation with someone who's a little bit down, a little bit low energy. How well is that conversation going to go? Not very well. It's going to be a complete show because we will not find common ground, but not think about this.

Speaker 3: What if we start with very inconsequential talk with small talk and we shoot a couple of questions back and forth. What are you thinking about the weather? What do you think about the Lakers game? What do you think about and so on and so on and so on. And that allows me to recognize, Oh, the other person is a little bit down and I can adapt to that. But at the same time, the other person might get a little bit infected by my happiness and by my energy level. And they come up a little bit and three, four questions into the conversation we've synchronized. And now we can take this conversation further and we can talk about stuff that is more meaningful.

Speaker 1: That's absolutely right. Small talk is a low stakes way to simply see if the other person is interested and emotionally available and having a conversation. And he'd understand that that should take a lot of pressure off of you. You don't have to personalize it. If someone's having a bad day, if someone's not interested in smalltalk, they're going to give you those signals, but you don't have to assume, Oh, I'm boring. I'm uninteresting. I'm not worthy. And if you think about it at a professional level, if you come in with a little bit more energy and you allow the other person to synchronize into your energy, well, they're going to be more likely to buy from you. They're going to be more likely to hire you. They're going to be more interested in whatever service you're offering. So this is very simple, low stakes strategy for you and the other person to start to synchronize and get in line with each other. And if you think about it that way, it actually opens up so much more possibility. Again, instead of labeling it as something I have to do something I don't look forward to, or even worse, something that's just boring and useless.

Speaker 2: Well, anything that you're going to do when you're in a social environment, that synchronicity is going to be important. Because once again, it shows that signaling that acknowledgement. It allows people to begin the work of getting comfortable with somebody. And if they're comfortable with you, they're going to open up to you. If they're open up to you, it's an opportunity to deepen any sort of relationship that you might be having. So if you were a sales person or a lawyer, or in a leadership role, your work is going to depend on how well you interact with other people. That small talk is a very important piece of gathering information that you're going to use later, allowing people to get comfortable synchronization and the signaling and acknowledgement to say, yes, you and I are both in this room or in the same place. And this is where we're going to begin our work.

Speaker 1: And that's right. So many of our clients try to skip over the step. They try to avoid it and just go into whatever they need, whether it's professionally, I got to get this task done. I need my team to focus on this. And when you skip over that small talk, you don't actually read the emotions of the other person. You can't figure out is their head in the game. Are they on the same page? Are they interested? So small talk has a benefit in the professional setting. It certainly has a benefit in a social setting, and it even has the benefit romantically to allow you and your partner to actually suss. Are we ready to have this conversation before jumping into wants needs, desires, and all the bigger stuff that of course matters to you? So we want to avoid that mistake or pitfall of thinking.

Speaker 1: Small talk is boring. I can just skip over it. It's non-consequential so why do I even need this skill? It's a very important skill. And as I said earlier, I made that mistake as an introvert. I used to look down on small talk. I used to think it was completely useless. And in turn, I never practiced it. I never gave myself an opportunity even get better at it and utilize it as a skill in my tool belt. Now, I realize if I go to a networking event, if I'm out socially, or even if I'm waiting for Amy to arrive on a date, I know that I can engage anyone in that room in a simple way. And it makes me happier. So it starts to alleviate whatever stress your feeling in your life. It's not a step to skip in conversation at all. It also establishes commonalities. And this is really important when we start to think about, well, why do we want to connect with people? Why do we want to welcome more people into our lives? Well, of course, we want to find some common ground. We want to have that ability to create those moments of connection, to bring emotional bids out in the other person and allow them to feel really good around us. We need

Speaker 3: To have that feeling of we're in the same tribe. We belong together. That feeling of belonging makes us feel safe, which sounds weird, but there are evolutionary reasons for that, because for the longest part of human history, whenever we saw a stranger that automatically meant, Oh, danger. And the only way to feel safe around that stranger is knowing, Hey, we're from the same tribe. So we're not going to kill each other. And the modern day equivalent of we're in the same tribe. That's that commonality that we find in small talk. It's the fact that we both watched the Lakers game. It's the fact that we both enjoy spring. It's the fact that we both enjoy strawberry ice cream. And the moment we make that connection, there is this feeling of belonging. And there is this feeling of safety. Now here's an important part of small talk because without the other person feeling safe, there's not going to be a connection, hence that need for commonality.

Speaker 1: And here's a fun side note on this. Write your examples, Michael focused on things. You enjoy things you're excited about, but guess what? Even sharing negative emotions, things you're afraid of or things that make you nervous again, create that commonality in the other person. So don't look at smalltalk as, Oh, I have to be bubbly and I have to be this false positive person to draw people in. Sometimes acknowledging that, Hey, these networking events, especially after the pandemic, it make me a little, are you feeling a little anxious now that we're all out in about, because I certainly am. You take that little step asking that question, showcasing a little vulnerability. You can still establish that commonality. And I know that many of us want to be that Doseck he's guy. You may have seen those famous commercials, the most interesting man or woman in the world.

Speaker 1: And we go into smalltalk thinking, well, I have to nail it. I have to be charismatic. I have to be bubbly and confident. And it's all about me, me, me. And if you go in with that mindset, you're shooting yourself in the foot. Smalltalk is actually about showcasing interest in the other person. When you are interested, you are actually in turn interesting. So don't look at this as like scripts, you got to memorize or canned openers, or you got to have this amazing story ready to go. The second you meet someone, because if you put that spotlight and focus on yourself, you're actually not engaging the person in an interesting way. And they're never going to get to that point where they actually like you more, you become more likable. The more interested you are in other people

Speaker 3: Ha the perfect example for this. And this has happened just recently. And it, maybe it shows how much of a chess game small talk can be. So I was at the train platform was waiting for a train and I figured, well, we're doing this episode on small talk, right? Let me try out some things. And it turned to the person next to me and I say, Hey, it's so great that the sun is out. This person turns to me and says, no, we need rain. It needs to rain. And I'm thinking to myself like, Whoa, you know what a fun kill who wants it to rain. But then I thought, okay, there must be a reason, right? I'm going to be interested in that. I'm going to find out. And I thought, why would someone want it to rain? And I looked at the person. I said, are you gardening? Do you have a garden? And his face lit up. And he started talking about the tomatoes he's planting and our herps and the thing here and how his wife is helping. And the kids are helping. And we had a 10 minute conversation about this guy gardening. And it was just because I was interested in what he had to say and also looked at what might be the topics that he's actually interested in talking about.

Speaker 1: And if you're an introvert, let's think about the signal we might be sending by not responding to people. Small talk by looking back, looking the other way and not engaging in small talk. You're actually showcasing active disinterest in that person. Do you want to be carrying yourself in that way? Is that the signal you want to be sending not only robbing yourself and that other person have a bit of happiness or a moment of joy, but many of us being introverted or being a little shy and not responding or actually telling the other person I'm not at all interested in you. I'm not at all interested in conversation. And some take that as a judgment on them. That was me in the past, in college, I avoided small talk. I thought, ah, it's useless. It's boring. Why do I need to engage? I didn't realize the impact that was having.

Speaker 1: And it's exponential. If you Rob people of those moments, you actually are disconnecting from them and everyone they know they're not gonna want to showcase their network and share their connections with you. They're not going to want to open up and actually get more vulnerable with you. They're simply going to write you off and say, Oh, age is uninterrupted has boring. Oh, what's AIG's problem. I don't think that's what many of us want to be sending as a signal as we're going about in the world. We actually want to make sure that we are connectable, that we are interesting. And of course that we can have great conversations. You can't do that. If you're skipping small talk, it's an important step. The only thing

Speaker 3: Way to really screw up small talk is if you don't engage in it, which is a pretty cool thought because you can almost not screw it up unless you are so shy and introverted that you don't give real answers. For example, if I ask you, Hey, how was your week?

Speaker 1: And, and you say, great. What did you do when camping? Well,

Speaker 3: I'm going to assume that you don't want to have a conversation. If you keep your mouth going for a little bit longer than just that one word answer, you're going to signal to me that you actually want to make that clear.

Speaker 1: So if you find yourself answering these simple, small talk conversations with one word answers, and now you realize, wow, I might be making this mistake. Add the simple phrase because how's your morning. Great. Because puppers actually went on a walk and I didn't have to chase around the house to put on his collar. Great, because I actually got my Starbucks faster than I had in the last two weeks. The line was very short by adding that simple phrase because, and explaining your one word answer. You actually open up conversational threads for the other person to feel one you're interested in talking to they actually have more to maneuver on. And three, as we said, it makes all of us happier. So now we've understood that there are big mistakes you might be making in labeling small talk, boring, skipping over it, or focusing too much on yourself and thinking you have to be the most interesting person to light up that room. So next time you're out. Let's not overlook small talk. Let's actually look back with a smile, realize we're delivering that bit of happiness and that person's life. And simply explaining ourselves with a simple, because statement allows the other person, a world of possibilities conversationally.

Speaker 4: All right, before we, we have a huge

Speaker 1: Shout out to our bootcamp, alumni, Ian, he recently put his bootcamp social skills to the test with his entire special operators unit during an emotional intelligence training exam. And he was the only one that passed with flying colors. Now we love hearing from our bootcamp alumni about how their new found social skills have transformed their personal and professional lives, which is why we're so excited to welcome our military members back to our bootcamp experience.

Speaker 2: We look forward to hosting your unit in Las Vegas with us in October in, are you ready to supercharge your social skills and rock any social situation?

Speaker 1: Join us in Las Vegas for a truly life-changing experience apply today@theartofcharm.com slash book.

Speaker 2: That's right. We're accepting applications for our 2021 bootcamp programs kicking off in August spaces limited with only six boot camps planned this year. So pause this podcast right now and apply today. The art of charm.com/bootcamp.

Speaker 1: Now we are excited to be kicking off more toolbox episodes this year, and we want to hear from you, what topics do you want us to unpack and tackle in our upcoming podcast episodes, email us@questionsattheartofcharm.com or find us on social media at the art of charm on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter, to let us know your topics before we go. Can you do as one big favor? That's right. Can you pause this podcast and rate it in Apple podcast? Let us know how you enjoyed it and give us a review. It helps us bring on great guests and of course share all this wonderful information.

Speaker 2: The term podcast is produced by Michael Harold and Eric Montgomery until next week. I'm Johnny

Speaker 1: And I'm a J go out there and rock some small talk

Speaker 4: [inaudible] [inaudible].

Speaker 1: You're able to hear everything, every word that was said. So when you're like, yeah, yeah, right. The purple parakeet. I see it. They're like, this is why you get in return. You're not listening to me because it was never about the purple parakeet. It was about spending quality time. In that moment together, it was about being with somebody tracking the same thing, having sharing in this experience. So if you are somebody who continues to get, you're not listening to me, this is why

Speaker 2: Welcome back to the art of charm podcast. The show designed to help you win at work, love, and life. Now we know you have what it takes to reach your full potential. And that's why we're so excited every week to share with you interviews and strategies to help you develop the right social skills and mindsets to succeed.

Speaker 1: You shouldn't have to settle for anything less than extraordinary. I'm ADJ. And I'm Johnny, are you a super fan of this show,

Speaker 2: Want to meet amazing people with growth mindsets, looking to improve their relationships.

Speaker 1: Then come join us on Facebook and share what you've learned from the show.

Speaker 2: Get the latest art of charm news and surprise live discussions with us.

Speaker 1: The art of charm.com/community. Join the community and our conversation over Facebook. The art of charm.com/community.

Speaker 2: I'm so excited for today's toolbox episode, Johnny. This month, we're diving deep into one of our favorite topics, emotional bids. Now you've heard us mention this on the show. Many times in the past, you may have even caught the last toolbox episode on this. I think it was in 2018. So this week Michael's joining us to dedicate an entire episode to really explain what emotional bids are, the impact they have on our relationships and why they're so important. And of course, some simple tips and strategies to help you spot them and react appropriately to start building better relationships. Welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us, Michael. So this is one of our favorite topics, and this is a toolbox revisited because we last chatted about emotional bids in 2018. And if you are subscribed to premium Stitcher, well, you still have access to that incredible toolbox.

Speaker 2: Or if you're following us on YouTube, you may have watched it, but this comes up again. And again, we reference it in many of our interviews and episodes. And I honestly view this as a cheat code to relationships because this changed my relationship with Amy entirely. So I'm so excited to have Michael and Johnny joining me today to talk exactly about emotional bids. If you've heard in your relationship, you're not listening to me and you sit there thinking, but I am listening. Turn the volume up a little bit. Maybe slow it down, turn off distractions, turn off notifications and listen to this next hour because it will change how you show up in that matter. And of course, we want to kick it off first with just giving you an overview of what emotional bids are, what they mean. If you've never heard this phrase before, this might be a little eye opening, it may be a new concept for you. And then we're going to share some strategies at the end to allow you to turn towards those emotional bids and deepen every relationship in your life.

Speaker 1: I can personally state upon learning emotional beds, what they are, how they worked, that they had changed my life. And they also changed the way that I viewed conversations and what I was looking for in conversations and allowed all of my relationships to be enhanced. Just from this one tool

Speaker 3: I had heard about the emotional bits of course, a lot because we cover them here in the podcast so many times, but the first time I saw them in action was during bootcamp. When the guys went out into a night club, uh, looking for emotional bids, reacting to them, and suddenly they were surrounded by people. And I was like, Whoa, maybe, you know, I need to look into these emotional bids even more because I saw the power of them inaction for hours and they just always worked.

Speaker 2: And it's amazing when you can respond to these emotional bids and the other person recognizes that and feels more comfortable getting vulnerable sharing and feels more connected to you. It really is a cheat code. I cannot stress it enough. So first things first let's define an emotional bid. Michael,

Speaker 3: This is an attempt from one partner to another, um, for attention, affirmation and affection, or basically any kind of connection, usually, you know, positive connection and they can be verbal. So, you know, cert asking for help, asking for advice, asking to share something, they can also be non-verbal. So this might be a smile, a wink, or, you know, a slight touch. And we make emotional bits in our relationships when we wish to develop depth. When we want to take that relationship further, whether that's with a romantic partner, with a friend, even with a coworker and even in networking and, you know, work in general. And the tricky thing is that I think this episode is going to open a lot of eyes and ears throughout us talking about it. Because after this episode, you will see them and hear them speak more specifically everywhere. And that's, that's the powerful thing. So they can't really be overstated.

Speaker 2: Now, if you're a bootcamp, alumni or an X factor accelerator member, you've heard us talk about value time and time again. In fact, we were teaching value before we even discovered this concept of emotional bids. And we've always defined value as the three A's. Right. Okay.

Speaker 1: Yes. Which is attention approval and acceptance. So as

Speaker 2: You see, there's massive overlap in what Michael defined as emotional bids. And what we've been saying is give other people value. When we actually start paying attention to the signals that people in our life are giving us when they try to connect with us, when they try to seek that attention, that affirmation, that affection from us. Well, we can now capitalize on a layer of communication that most of us are not paying attention to. So if you're sitting there a little social anxious, a little in your head, worried, how am I being perceived? Does this other person like me? We're about to blow the doors off of how you approach conversation. Because when you start seeing these signals and turning towards them, it lights up the room, the other person feels more connected to you than ever. Now we're going to break down how these work in principle.

Speaker 2: We're also going to give you a couple common ones to look out for, but we have to start by giving a shout out to Dr. Gottman because he's the man who coined this exact phrase and his research in newlyweds, married couples and longevity in romantic relationships is really foundational to how we view successful couples. And what I learned from that applied to my own relationship. So if you're sitting in the car next to your partner, if you're on your way, home for work, ready to share a meal with your spouse or significant other, you're going to really appreciate what we're about to share with you. So let's kick it off with this newlywed study that we talk about so much, Michael. Yes,

Speaker 3: This was affectionately known as the love lab. And this was something that Dr. Gottman did in 1,999, that's 22, 22 years ago already. And what he did is he designed a lab in the university of Washington and he made it look like a bed and breakfast retreat. And then he invited 130 newlywed couples to spend a day in the retreat. So I'm assuming like one after the other, right? They were like all 130 in there at the same time. So a couple would come in and then they would be reserved, observed how they interact with each other. So there were microphones and cameras everywhere. And of course they, they knew about this. And what Dr. Gottman discovered was that throughout the day, people or partners frequently made these requests for connection to each other. And this is what he then called the emotional bid. And after six years, he followed up with those couples and he discovered something big.

Speaker 3: He discovered that there was a big difference between how couples behaved, um, that stayed married, how they behaved in the love lab. And in those that didn't, and one of the key elements off this was how they responded to emotional bits and those couples that were still happy to be married. They responded on average like 86% of the time to an emotional bit that their partner made while that got divorced six years later or earlier, they only responded positively about 33% of the time. And so Dr. Goldman said, okay, I seem to be onto something here. And he's, he's deep into his research and done, like he worked with so many more couples. So the 130 really was just the tip of the iceberg that sparked the entire thing. And what he's able to do now is kind of infamous for his ability to watch a three minute clip of a couple. He doesn't know the couple doesn't know anything about them, but he sees like a three minute clip with audio and video. And with 94% accuracy, he can tell whether that couple will be broken up unhappy or happy. Uh, several years later, with just three minutes of watching them,

Speaker 1: I want to just state for the purposes of experiment and setting up this lab. This idea of the bed and breakfast is perfect to be able to observe a couple. When I think of the bed and breakfast, number one, they're out of their natural habitat. Number two, there's an a, an, a traveling scenario and anyone who's traveled in a relationship knows the difficulties that go along with that. And if, and if there is any issues within that relationship, the traveling is going to bring that out. And that has a bit of the, it's a, it's a small stress test, but just enough to see how a couple really behaves with each other while they're at home, there is so much distraction and everyone's lives are rolling, but when you take them out of the home and put them in this scenario, the couple has there's two ways. This goes, they either retreat to their own psyche to deal with the new surroundings at what they want to do, or they connect to the point where it is them traveling together, opening up the world together, and you will be able to see the communication, how different both of those scenarios

Speaker 2: And great guys, couples, what does this have to do with me? I'm single. I'm not worried about romance. I'm a great listener. And here's the thing. This is why this context is so important. Yes, this was a study of romantic partners. But if you think about it, romantic partners have the deepest realest connection. What Dr. Gottman is saying is that these emotional bids are the Genesis of every single connection in our lives. So that's your coworkers, your peers, your friends, and your significant other. So if you're struggling to make deep connections, have you feel, you have surface level friends, you have a lot of people in your life, but you're not comfortable getting vulnerable odds are, you're also not turning towards these emotional bids and creating space for that other person to get vulnerable and connect with you. And this is not about just being a better listener.

Speaker 2: This is one of those areas where the Dunning Kruger effect is alive and well, because many of us over index on our listening, the problem is we're not that great of listeners and the science shows this again. And again and again, in fact, it's common for doctors trained to help patients and listen to patients, to interrupt patients within the first 11 seconds of that patient explaining what's wrong with them. And science says they actually need at least 30 seconds to get it out, but the doctor's already jumping ahead. How many of us are approaching our relationships rushing, jumping ahead, thinking about what we need to say or how we need to prove our point or what happened to us and among managers who had rated themselves as the best listeners. 94% of them said, they're fantastic listeners, except their staff, their employees rated them as horrible listeners.

Speaker 2: So if your staff is not feeling heard, if the team that you work with is not feeling supported, if you are not turning towards these emotional bids, you are doing them a disservice. And this is my favorite because I know Amy and puppers can agree with this poll. It went full. One third of women said their pets were better listeners than their partners. And this is the journey that I've been on over the last seven years of becoming a better, more present listener in my relationship with Amy and one of our favorite guests, Adam Grant says it best listening well is a more than a matter of talking less. It's a set of skills in asking and responding. And it actually starts with showing more interest in other people's interests, rather than trying to judge their status or even worse prove our own.

Speaker 1: Hey, Jay, there's something there. I wanted to point out. So you're talking about the doctor patient scenario, and the doctor already knows what the diagnosis is, what he needs to do, what he needs to tell the patient he's in what we call autopilot mode. He's going through the motions because though this patient might be having some new elements that he's explaining that doctor's probably already been through this scenario six times this week. So he knows the drill, but if he cuts the patient off in 11 seconds, and that patient does not feel that he's being heard, you can bet that that patient is not going to have a very good view of that doctor. If you don't have a very good view of that doctor, how does that then roll into how you respond to his advice? Number one, you might go to another doctor because you feel that he's not listening to you.

Speaker 1: You're not going to be as connected with him as you should be. Also, you're not going to take his advice as that serious, because you didn't feel that you were being heard. And if you weren't heard that, how does he know what advice to give you? But yet, you know, he's doing his job and he's, but he is an autopilot mode. And we have to account for that. And you know, Asia, we do this show, we record so many of these. And a lot of people, I think from the outside, looking in, can see that other just podcasters, they get a book, they look at some notes, they have a conversation and it's a done deal. I know I don't want to go and do these interviews in an autopilot mode because we would get the same interview that everybody else is getting. And if, if somebody writes a book and they're doing the podcast circuit, will I want our interview with this guest, say, Adam Grant to be a little bit special, to be something that will be unique to our competition into the other interviews are going on. And also more focused on what we do here at the art of charm, because the people who are listening to our show, they're listening to it for a reason. And we want to give them that information.

Speaker 3: You might be able to tell me if this is true, but most people say that really listening is they're retiring. You need a lot of concentration to be fully present and to listen. And when we do in the, in the X-Factor accelerator, when we do our monthly improv training, we do those games where someone has to start telling a story. And then we, as the, as the coaches, we interrupt them in the next person has to jump in so forth, 30 seconds or one minute everyone has to really listen because they don't know who's going to be next. And after 90 minutes of improv training, everyone is tired. Like we're all exhausted because it takes a lot of energy. And this is also why being a good listener is so highly rated by those people that are actually being listened to because most people know, yeah, this is taxing too, to really pay attention for a longer period of time.

Speaker 1: Well, here's another tidbit to make these podcasts what they are and how much effort and care the AIG and I put into them, which is the guests who's coming in. We'll use since we use the Adam Grant quote, we'll, we'll use him as an example. So Adam's coming in and guess what? Adam's already done, 20 other podcasts and interviews and whatnot, to no fault of his own. He's just going to go into autopilot mode and start talking about his book. And if he's already done it 20 times, he's already got a rap of what is going to be, and he's going to get the conversation started for Asia and I we're trained. And we talk about emotional bids on a weekly basis. We are looking for the emotional bids, because if we're able to find one and pull it out and put the conversation around it, guess what? Adam's going to first break out of the autopilot. And now he's going to be fully engaged in our interview. He is going to remember, and he's going to enjoy himself because it does step out of the box that he's been in for so long. But now we're working in and talking about some other things that he really cares about, that he hasn't had the opportunity to, to share. And we've been able to locate what that is through listening for emotional.

Speaker 2: All right. So now that we've got everyone's interest has elevating, tell us, tell us what emotional bits are. So this is such an important concept that I would recommend if you don't catch it the first time, pause and double back. And I say that because many of our X-Factor members and our bootcamp participants have written us and said, this is the life changing information in their relationships. Now let's talk about how it works, why it works and what you need to learn to create better and deeper connections. So here's how an emotional bid looks. And then we'll talk about how you react to it. And emotional bid is the emotional layer that lies behind a statement or an action. Now, emotional bids are the true meaning behind those words, which is why it takes an extra level of listening. It's not surface level listening. So the actual words might be something like, look a purple parakeet.

Speaker 2: The actual meaning is, Hey, will you actually look out the window with me at this beautiful bird that I'm talking about? So it's not just, Oh, you know, Amy saw a bird, great. It's the participation and something that is exciting and makes the other person enthusiastic to share. Or for example, I talked to my boss today. Well, great. You talk to your boss, right? You're listening on a surface level. What is, what's the big deal? But the actual meaning is, will you let me share this story with you? I want to talk about this conversation with my boss. That's why I gave you that emotional bit. Or if you're introverted like me, you might get this question. How's it going? And if you're like Johnny and you're in autopilot, as we were talking about earlier, you might go good, great. But actually what that person is saying is can I have your attention?

Speaker 2: And can you open up and share with me? I don't know what's going on with you. You're sitting there quietly introverted. AIJ. So as you start to see, we're moving a layer of behind the words, we're not just settling for the surface level, boring conversation, we're going for that deeper meaning. And that's why we absolutely love this quote by Dale Carnegie, because he nails it when dealing with people, remember you're not dealing with creatures of logic, but with creatures of emotion. So it's that emotional context and layer behind what's being shared. That allows us to connect on those emotions. Now, if you're in an analytical job, if you're an engineer or a scientist, like many of our alumni in our programs, well, you're classically trained to listen for the data. What do you mean the emotional layer behind it? I don't have time for the emotional layer. I got facts and figures. I got to calculate, and it takes training yourself and being patient with it to start to recognize the deeper meaning behind it.

Speaker 3: So I think here for me as a total book nerd, I see a movie nerd as well, thanks to the pandemic and Netflix that I see a clear parallel for why I am reading novels, why I'm watching Saifai series. Not because I want to see the data. I'm not watching the expanse because I want to know all about spaceships and chief forces. It's no, it's that emotional layer. That's weak woven into the story. And, and that is of course, you know, his story. It has a different purpose than an emotional bit, but the principle is the same a book or a movie is full of data, but that's not why people watch it or read it. And the same is true for when I say something to you. Yes. Sometimes I want you to know the data. Hey, here's the login data here is a calendar entry, of course. But very often I will say things that are just superficially data oriented, but underneath it's like, ha ha, I'm really proud of this one or AAJ, uh, like I could say, Hey Jay, like, here's an amazing testimonial or just God and ha could be like, okay, you know what? Testimonial great. Or he could like age, I could see the enthusiasm and the pride that is, that is below it.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And I'd like to add to that as well. If you're trained to listen to info, as AGA was speaking about, well, you're able to hear everything, every word that was said. So when you're like, yeah, yeah, right. The purple parakeet. I see it. They're like you, this is why you get in return. You're not listening to me because it was never about the purple parakeet. It was about spending quality time. In that moment together, it was about being with somebody tracking the same thing, having sharing in this experience. So if you are somebody who keeps continues to get, you're not listening to me. This is why you're listening on a very cerebral level, but not on a lizard brain level. And also I want everyone who's listening to this to understand that we are dealing with multiple levels of communication at all times, if you think advertising is just telling you what, why their product is cool and why you should have it, and what the specifics are to your life in purchasing this, I got news for you.

Speaker 1: You are missing out on the complete subconscious communication that is going on. That is manipulating your emotions through the visuals, through certain words, to bring out certain emotions in you to get you excited. So we were like, I need this without even realizing that you have logically bought into this idea. You're now thinking about it emotionally. And once you are thinking about a product that you need emotionally, it's only a matter of time before you logically come to the conclusion that you need it, that you're going to go buy it, but you've already bought it moments earlier.

Speaker 2: This revise V of a experience I had over the holiday break. So Amy's sister was visiting, and I know that Amy and her sister love Harry Potter. I'm not really a fan of those action hero movies or fantasy movies. But I decided to surprise Amy by getting the 4k box set of Harry Potter, best Christmas ever. Exactly right. Michael, before understanding emotional bids, I would have summed it up. As boy goes to school, becomes wizard graduates. Why do I need eight movies to get this accomplished? But watching those eight movies in 4k, exactly what Michael's talking about, the emotional rollercoaster is why we seek out entertainment. It's also why we seek out connection with others. So emotional bids are a two way street. You may not be paying attention to others, and you may also not be communicating emotional bids towards others. So you may be just sling in facts and data and not including that emotion and the other person's feeling disconnected from you and saying, Oh, AIJ, doesn't really want to connect with me.

Speaker 2: Or, Oh, Johnny's not in a good mood. He doesn't really seem that he wants to have this conversation with me. So emotional bids are that underlying communication powering every connection in our lives. So here are some common types. Now there are nine. We don't have time to go through all nine, but if you head over to the art of charm.com/bids, B I D S the art of charm.com/bids, you're going to be able to download a screen saver to save these nine on your phone. And I recommended conversation. You put it on airplane mode, you review it before you're talking to someone you really care about. And you're going to notice these bids coming at you in every relationship in your life. But as we were saying, if you're distracted, if you're thinking about what you're going to cook for dinner, or what book you're going to read in the evening. And Amy saying, I talked to my boss today. Well, you're probably not going to catch that underlying meaning that Amy wants to share a story and wants that quality time. And that's why it's important to turn down the distractions, turn off the TV and have those moments to really connect with someone.

Speaker 1: I want to add to that as well. Um, for myself, for as many interviews as we do, and I get a little nervous. I, I always want the interview to go, well, of course, I want our time and the energy that we've put in or interviews to yield something of value for our listeners. I never worry about the, how those conversations are going to be to the fact that I know what I'm listening for in the interview. And that allows me to not worry about it, but to focus on what's going to be important, which are the bids. And this goes for anyone. If you're nervous about going to a networking event or a first date, or even an interview, if you're going for a job interview, understanding what these emotional bids are, what they look like, being able to identify them and validate them is going to give you an upper hand, but not only being comfortable, you'll never run out of things to say, and you'll be working on an emotional level, which you will be pulling out emotional bids that the other person has brought up.

Speaker 1: So you are stoking the flames and putting them into an, a heightened, emotional state, which when they leave that interaction, they're going to think, wow. Michael was so rad. What a conversation that was so fun. If they're thinking that was fun, where they enjoy that conversation, there was a heightened, emotional state that is going to linger every time that you hear Michael Harold's name, you are going to go back to how you felt in that conversation with Michael. And the only thing you're going to have to say is, Oh yeah, Michael's rat. And that is it. That's going to be the memory. So think about how that works. On a first date. You want to leave a lasting impression that makes this person text you back immediately. It is you nailing these emotional bids. You want to get the job that you know is going to lead you to new opportunities in your life. And you want to feel good about it. Nail these emotional bids and the person who did the interview is going to go that guy's tall. And I want to hang out with that guy. I want to

Speaker 2: Work with that guy unforgettable.

Speaker 1: That's why these are so important. And I can tell you after learning these, I've used these to that effect. I have rolled in the first dates. I don't worry about those at all. Why? Because I can lay back and enjoy just being in the moment, picking out the emotional bids and exploring those topics with the person. It's. And guess what? They're always texting back.

Speaker 2: So let's give three of our favorites and these are classic examples. The first is a bid for a right, and this one is the most frequent one you're going to encounter, because as we said, many of us are walking around distracted. We got that endless distraction device in our pocket that sometimes we even think is vibrating. When it's not our, our focus is constantly on what's going on in our pocket. So this won a bid for attention. As we said, you won't believe what my boss said to me today.

Speaker 1: Oh, what did I say

Speaker 2: In the past? I would have said, Amy, what's for dinner. Right? I got it. I'm hungry. I've had a long day too. And I'm the boss. And I need to get moving. I am not really concerned about what your boss said, right? And that would be what we call turning away from that emotional bit. We're short-circuiting what Amy really wants, which is attention. And the second one is shared interest, a bid for actual interest from you. Isn't this the best show you've ever seen. Again, you could say, man, I don't know. I've seen the Harry Potter movies. This, this doesn't compare. Or you could say, this is a pretty good show. Why do you enjoy it so much? What do you love about it? That's turning towards the emotional bid.

Speaker 1: I just want to point that out. So you mentioned that's turning towards it. So you were, you're asking them a question directed at the emotional bid that allows them to dive into the emotional state that they were bringing up that allows them to feel good about Harry Potter. So now, regardless of how you feel about a review, even seed it, guess what they get to do. They get to tell you all about it. And now they're stoking that emotional state and they're getting worked up by it and they're allowing it to take over. So now all of a sudden, the conversation that I had with AIG about a Harry Potter is a feel good conversation, which people don't remember what you say. They remember how you make them feel.

Speaker 2: Now that example is nuance. So I want to point this out for the audience. I did not just take that question and respond with a question. I said, you know, the show is pretty good. What do you like about it? Why do you love it so much? I'm buffering my followup question with an actual statement. That's turning towards the bit. So when you listen to this, rewind it a little bit and relisten to that because many in our audience get tripped up and go, Oh great. I just throw a follow-up question. Oh, I turned towards the bed. No, that person is asking for your interest level. And then you're opening it up to go deeper into that emotional bid in thus creating that amazing connection. Now what we've been sharing, I know it's positive emotions, baby. It's exciting. AIJ this is great. I get it. I just happy fun feelings. No, it, emotional bids are also tied to negative emotions. And the third one, we're going to give you as a bid for emotional support. I'm afraid I'm going to flunk this exam. Uh, you may have heard that and said, don't worry about it. You'll do fine. You're so studious. You're going to crush it, but that's actually turning away from that emotional bid. That's not offering that person emotional support. I see you nodding Michael.

Speaker 3: I, I S this one is, uh, I was waiting for you to pick it because otherwise I would have thrown it in as an extra. This is the one that people usually pick up on. Like, if I, if I come to you and I say, Oh, AGM, and I'm really worried about, I dunno, what, what could you be worried about during a pandemic interview?

Speaker 2: I'm really worried about the podcasts. Exactly.

Speaker 3: I'm really worried about this. This interview. Most people will pick up on that because I'm addressing an emotion more or less directly, but what they then do is they turn against it by saying, Hey, don't worry about it. You're cool. You can do this, but that's not what I've been saying. I don't want you to negate me. I want you to be where I am at and come with me. So, yeah. Thanks for, thanks for picking the emotional support. One.

Speaker 2: I always have to use that example in class, in bootcamp and X factor, because all we go through those nine emotional bids and everyone's nodding their head and saying, I get it age. I totally positive emotions who doesn't want to connect on positive emotions, positivity, baby. It's not all about positive emotions. It's about recognizing all emotions and understanding that there are going to be times when your partner, your friend, your peer, your coworker, your staff member is going to be turning towards you for emotional support. And they don't want to hear that emotion in validated. They don't want you to turn away or dismiss it. They want you to help them unpack it and recognize it and feel supported and listen. Some of these are very easy to get, and they're easy to SWAT and interpret while others are going to be a little harder to detect. It takes a level of you being mindful and being present in that conversation. And if that's not something that you're doing right now, if that's something you're struggling with, well, that's exactly what we focus on in our core confidence program is developing your present moment awareness so that your not paying attention to the past, the future, all those thoughts swirling in your head, but you're able to actually sit there and engage in a amazing conversation, fully listening to the other person.

Speaker 3: The thing with emotional bits is really we, we wouldn't need them. If people were just able to say, Hey, agent, I'm worried about this podcast interview, Hey, age, I'm really proud of this person that went through core confidence and just graduated and the progress that they've made. But, you know, vulnerability is a little bit of a scary thing. So we package it in something that we meant to say anyway. So it's always that it's not that bright light of vulnerability. It's that spark that's packaged in a more or less regular sentence. And that's why it's so easy to overlook. And if people were simply to say, Hey, I need you right now. We wouldn't have to do it toolbox episode and emotional bit, but people don't tend to do that because being vulnerable is scary. Even with your partner, vulnerability can be scary. And so emotional bits are just a, a construct in the language that allows to sneak in vulnerability and then fingers crossed. I hope the other person picks up on it, which hopefully your listeners are now able to do.

Speaker 2: And that's why we created a cheat sheet for you. So you don't have to take diligent notes. We got, you covered the art of charm.com/bids, B IDs, and you will get access to our cheat sheet where you can download it to your phone and have those nine to follow along with and pay attention to. Now we threw a couple of phrases at you here, turning towards turning away. And there's a third one turning against. So we've now recognized these emotional bits, great guys, I'm listening. I'm following along. What do we do with them? And how do we deepen that connection will turning towards an emotional bed is what we need to do to deepen that connection and turning towards someone's emotional bids means giving them your attention approval and acceptance, giving them that value that we talked about. And when you turn towards them, that person hears. I see you. I care. I'm invested. That is what they hear when we are turning towards that bit. I know you're nodding your head, Johnny.

Speaker 1: Well, there is turning towards turning away and turning against. And I know a lot of couples out there, like to think that they have a good relationship where their significant other can come to them with anything. And that's certainly where you would like to be in your relationship. You would want your significant other, if something was bothering them to come and tell you about it. So you guys can work it out. Now, how do you get to a place where both parties feel good about coming to each other about what is bothering them, concerning them? Well, it is turning towards emotional bids every time that there's an emotional bid and you turn towards it, you are opening up lines of communication. I want you to think of communication, phone lines going between you and the person that you have this relationship with. Every time you turn toward them, when they throw out an emotional bed, you open those lines up.

Speaker 1: When you turn away, you can strip those lines. So if those communication lines are not opening up, then why would the person needs support come to you? When they run the risk of throwing out an emotional bid and you not acknowledging it, if you ignore it, they're, they're put in a position where they feel neglected, and if they feel neglected or ignored, then those lines have broken down. They're constricted, and you're going to get less emotional bids. If you learn what the emotional bits are attentive, and you acknowledge them and you validate them with confirmation and you explore them, you're opening up these lines. And now every time that that person has a problem has an issue once to share and celebrate celebration. You are the person that they're coming to. So if your relationship is faltering, and this is any relationship with friends, family, significant other, the, you have to work to opening those lines back up. Once those lines are back up, then you're going to reap the benefits of that. If those lines are closed, we'll of course your significant other isn't coming to you with issues, problems, or a celebration, and guess what? They will find somebody else who they can come to to find that support and to find somebody to celebrate with. And nobody wants that.

Speaker 3: And I would also like to point out that this doesn't have to be a lot. So the other person is not looking for a major commitment. He or she is looking for a connection. So if Amy were to say to agent, Oh, those Harry Potter movies, they were great. We have to do another Harry Potter marathon. Ha doesn't have to close the computer, cancel all his appointments and then sit down for 93 hours. Right. That would be the commitment. It would be enough for him to say, Oh yeah, you're right. Like they were so great. Do you remember this Quidditch match in the first movie, right? That is already turning toward that emotion. So you don't always have to, you know, close everything you're doing and go after this, just recognizing it and letting the other person know that I see you. I care about you. That is enough to turn it toward.

Speaker 1: Yes. We're learning how to identify and validate them because there are so many being thrown at us on a day to day basis. You just need to be able to recognize a decent portion of them that keep those lines open. However, if that person starts to feel that they're going to be vulnerable and run the risk of being ignored, well, then you're going to get less and less emotional bids. And remember, if you're looking to reignite your relationship or put it back together, you need to pay attention to the few emotional bids that you are getting on a day-to-day basis. And then when you validate those emotional bids, you'll start to see more, more when those

Speaker 3: Lines open back up. And that's,

Speaker 2: That is one of the most rewarding things in TTS. And it reminds me of one of our executive clients. So he runs a major international company and he was referred to us from a couples therapist that we had on the show. And he came to us thinking I just need to become more outgoing. And I need to get my swag was the quote unquote, what he was looking for and working with us at the art of charm. And I remember going through emotional bids and telling him straight up like this is going to change your relationship with your wife. And he's like, no, no, no. I'm working on now with a therapist. That's not that important to me. Let's get to the swag part. Let's get to the part where I'm actually cool and outgoing. And I'm like, trust me, I'm telling you, this is going to take your relationship to the next level.

Speaker 2: We went through the emotional beds and then he took off and he messaged us in between that session and the following session that he wished he would have taken better notes. Can we review these emotional bids on the next session? Because when he turned towards his partner's emotional bid, which is probably the first time he'd done it in years, being a super successful, crazy pack, schedule executive running a major company, he's always distracted. He always has other things on his mind, but in that moment of turning towards recognizing and turning towards that bed with his wife changed the entire game. So he came back, the next session came to the house and we had to review those emotional bids. And he was writing diligently all nine of them. So it's subtle. It doesn't have to be a major change in your behavior. It's not clear the schedule, but some simple examples of turning towards the bid, you know, Oh my God, it's a purple parakeet.

Speaker 2: Stop. What you're doing. Get up and look out the window with your significant other or two friends are talking and one makes a joke. Well, that's a bid for connection. So laugh at the joke. Recognize that that person is showcasing a sense of humor, or let's talk about why these responses are so important. We have to understand that in these moments, these emotional bids, we are our most vulnerable. We're putting a little fishing line out there saying, I'm, I'm trying to make a connection here. I really want to nibble on that line. I want to know that you care. I want to feel seen and heard. Now turning away is when we actually ignore that emotional bit. So there's no reaction. We keep washing the dishes. We're not going to the window to check out the parakeet. We keep our plans with our friends. We're not going on Amazon to order the Harry Potter, eight disc set. These are small subtle actions to ignore our partner, our friend, our peer, our coworker, our staff member, that over time build resentment and that resentment poisons relationship.

Speaker 3: And this can be as small as, Oh, look, there is a bird outside of the window. Great. It can be as little as that. I mean, come, what do you want? I said, great. Didn't I? Yeah, but you know, on the emotional level, you were turning away to meet, turning away from an emotional bit. If I were to imagine it in like a comic strip, it's two people approaching one holds help out the hand to shake before, you know, before and after the pandemic don't do it right now. But hen holds out the hand to shake and the other person just ignores it and doesn't shake. That is how it would look like if it were like physically expressed, but for the purpose of this being verbal behavior, it's like, yeah, I just ignore you. I don't, I don't go after it. I don't bite.

Speaker 1: It also gives you an opportunity to pick which emotional beds you want to explore too. It gives you an opportunity to steer the conversation into something that you are a bit more excited about as well. You're going to always get not just one emotional bid, and if you catch it, you catch it. And if you don't well, that's it, you're going to get flooded with a few of them. And it is up to you to start recognizing them and then responding to them in a way that allows the person to explore and stoke the emotions that they're looking to get into.

Speaker 2: Now, the third thing that we could do to an emotional bed is to turn against actually reject that emotional bid through criticism or sarcasm. Many of us in our audience, many of you listening right now may, maybe that sarcastic friend, that sarcastic spouse who always has a one-liner lettuce, stupid bird who loves purple parakeets, come on. We love dogs. In those moments of that biting sarcasm, you might get a laugh. You might think it's fun, but the other person is not feeling seen or heard appropriately. Now pop quiz for you. Cause I got this wrong. Let's think about this. Turning away from that emotional bid, ignoring it right, going on with your day, keep washing the dishes. Don't check out the bird or turning against being critical, being sarcastic. Which of those two do you think damages the relationship more? I actually got this wrong.

Speaker 3: Can someone play the jeopardy music while we have them? Think about this for a few seconds. I'll tell you. I'll tell you turning away is actually worse to stick with a bird example. Oh look, there's a great bird out there. If I don't react at all, it feels like you are nothing to me. I don't even hear you. I don't, you are not there. But if I turn and I say, well, the birds are stupid. At least I acknowledge you. I'm still, I'm still not doing the right thing, but at least I acknowledge you and let you know that, you know, I don't agree with you at all, but at least I recognize the fact that you just made a comment and then the other person can step up and say, what do you mean? Like birds? Aren't stupid. Birds are amazing. They're birds are better than Harry Potter. And now a discussion starts. So still saying, try to not turn away, try to not turn against, but if you accidentally have to decide between one of the two evils, don't turn away.

Speaker 1: I want to illustrate this with an example that is very real to AIG. And I, because we had to deal with this living in Los Angeles for quite a long time. But this example works really well here. And it illustrates this perfectly, which is the in LA, there is a homeless population that is the wallets. It's quite large. Now think about how the homeless folk are treated for most people. They just ignore them. They step over them. They walk around them. And there is this phenomenon for homeless folk that people dealing with a homeless population see a lot, which is they'll just wander into traffic and stand there and stop that traffic. And a lot of people think that this is a something wrong with them, that they have a mental illness that causes them to do this or that there's something that is pushing them to do this.

Speaker 1: But the actuality of this is because they have been ignored. They feel invisible that they feel insignificant. It is their only way to challenge those ideas and to see that they actually exist and think about it. They're not getting a good response from doing this, are they right? They're saying people are upset. They're honking the horn or hitting the guy. But that response helps them in that situation. More so than continuing to feel invisible. So use that example and understand your turning towards turning away or turning against emotional bids and the effect that it has on the other person.

Speaker 2: Now, if you are digging this toolbox and you're ready to recognize emotional bids, take a screenshot, tag us right now at the art of charm and share it with us on social media. We want to turn towards you, our audience and share you supporting the show. Yes, emotional bits have changed our life. So take a screenshot. Now, tag us, let us know your enjoying this episode. So we've covered emotional bids. Their significance gave you some clear examples. Now let's talk a little bit about why and how we can utilize these with some tools around emotional bits. Now there's a great quote by Ernest Hemingway. When people talk, listen completely, most people never listen. Yes. You're listening to the show by you're probably also washing dishes, running something else. How many of us are going through life? Only half listening. We got something on our mind, some tasks we're doing physically.

Speaker 2: We're always moving, but we're not actually present. And we teach all of our X-Factor accelerator participants, the importance of listening with our eyes and our ears because these emotional bids are subtle. They're below the surface and there are a lot of different emotional bids as we talked about. So it takes practice for you to bring it to a conscious level and bring it into your interactions. So this week I want to challenge you. I want you to think at the end of that interaction, what was the emotional bid in that interaction? Ask yourself that prompt. You know, it's so fascinating. We do this with our bootcamp participants and with X factor accelerator, we play back the video and we say, what emotional bids did you catch? And so many of us in the moment, we're not catching it, but when we take the time or wind the tape, we're like, Oh, that one and that one and that one.

Speaker 2: So the simple act of reflecting on interactions throughout this week, the next week, and asking yourself after what was the emotional bid there? Was there an emotional bid? Did I recognize one from what these gentlemen talked about on the show and have realistic expectations, as Johnny said, it's impossible to catch every single one of them. And that's not the goal. We're not here to make you perfectionists. We're actually here to make you more connected. And when you start recognizing them, even if you miss a few, you miss most of them, the simple act of recognizing and turning towards one or two in your interaction, changes, everything like that. Executive coaching client literally changed his marriage. And of course, once you spot it, turn towards it. There's no reason to be biting or critical or sarcastic, but actually celebrate that moment that this person wants to connect with me. This person values me so much that they're willing to get vulnerable. They're willing to open up. They're willing to share with me.

Speaker 3: Now people will wander. Like there's so many emotions out there. What if I pick the wrong one? And that's actually the cool thing with emotional bits that turning toward an emotional bit is just the turning toward. It doesn't matter if you get the emotion is the specifically, right? So, um, to add yet, another thing that you already said, ha maybe people have to listen with their eyes to see that while I talk with you, I'm a little like slummed over and I don't make eye contact. And I'm like, you know, closed, closed body language. And now you might pick up on an emotional bed and you might say, Oh Michael, you, you look sad, right? Turning toward what's happening here. And maybe you're wrong. And I say, no, no, no, actually, you know what? I'm not sad, but I'm tired. I didn't sleep that much. Right. You turn to what you got it wrong. But that doesn't matter at all. Because you said through reacting to my emotional bit, you said, I care about you. And I see you. And the fact that you mixed up sad and tired, that's that secondary, but you were there reacting to it

Speaker 2: And understand that daily stress wears us down. It makes it difficult for us to see these emotional bids. So managing your own stress will allow you to be a better partner, a better coworker, a better friend, and also understand that self-esteem impacts our ability to see emotional bids. So if you're feeling a little down on yourself, you're lacking in some confidence you need a boost of self-esteem. Well, one definitely check out core confidence, our coaching program, that Michael runs six weeks to get you rock solid confidence and rebuild that self-esteem. But to understand that this is a process of self-development and as your self-esteem starts to pick back up and grow, you're going to start to see that people around you are giving you more signals and you're recognizing more of those signals. And the killer thing about all of this that we talked about going back to Dr. Guttman is soon to be divorced marriages, miss 80% of each other's bids, whereas happy marriages still miss 20%. So think about that predo principle at work, if you're missing 80%, well you're on your way to the courthouse. But if you're missing 20%, you're still, you're getting 80%, right? You're still in a happy, successful marriage. You're still having a great relationship, but that partner, that coworker, that friend,

Speaker 3: And this can sometimes be frustrating for, for you that have now learned about emotional beds. And you're excited to bring those into your daily conversations, but here's the thing. The other person hasn't heard this episode. When you make an emotional bed, they might not pick it up because they don't have that, that knowledge. They don't know what to look for. So don't be frustrated with them. Maybe sent them to us, you know, sent them, share the podcast with them. I'd be like, Hey, I think you need to listen to those three guys. And maybe there's something in there for you.

Speaker 2: Well, one of our X-Factor members did just that he recognized that he was missing these emotional beds and he was worried. He was about to get married. And he was worried that his fiance and him were starting off on the wrong foot. And he grabbed our old toolbox episode on emotional bids and in a car ride, he flipped it on. And afterwards they had a conversation about emotional bids and brought awareness to both of them and how they're showing up in the relationship. So we want to support you in every relationship that you're building and recognize that these are the foundational building blocks to those connections,

Speaker 3: Wrap this up. They are emotional beds all the time out there. And we've given you a bunch of examples and you can also go to the artist, Tromba com slash Bates B IDs to get all nine and you can put them on your screen. But for now the easiest way to think about them is that an emotional is the underlying emotion under that piece of data that the other person gives you that's that is the rule of thumb. That's, that's what you look for. And the way you need to respond to them is with attention or the approval and acceptance, you don't have to commit to cleaning your calendar and going on that trip, you just have to turn towards it and say, Oh yeah, that's a great idea. Or I think that's cool as well that you're already doing it right. And the better you become at recognizing those emotional bets and turning towards the bitter, the more you will build those steep and meaningful relationships, you'll develop your listening skills and you will be a better conversation as well.

Speaker 2: This week, shout out, goes to Steve who's in our X factor accelerator who actually downloaded this toolbox episode and listen to it with his fiance. And they started recognizing each other's emotional bids and supercharging their relationship as they're getting ready to get married. Yay. Steve kudos to you, Steve, not only taking charge of yourself, but allowing your partner to grow along with you. We're really proud of you brother. [inaudible] Johnny Ivan, giddy with excitement to release this episode. In fact, our editor for the show, Brendan tagged us because he was so excited about how this exact episode implemented in his life and changed his relationship with his wife.

Speaker 1: I'm always about the little things that have some of the largest impact and emotional bids certainly fit that bill. And they are one of those things that go unnoticed, unless you were looking for them, but once you identify what they are and you begin using them, they change your perspective, not only of how you're going to relate to other people, but allows you to feel comfortable that you have this extra tool in your back pocket, that you can pull out to help with connection and just deepening your relationships with your loved ones, your friends, coworkers, and they just improve all conversation.

Speaker 2: That's right. And that's why we're so excited to announce that this month implementation session in our X-Factor accelerator mentorship program is dedicated to recognizing and turning towards emotional bits. Every month you get an opportunity to practice conversation and connection. In our X factor, implementation sessions

Speaker 1: Can get live feedback from us. The community is growing, and we want you to be a part of it. Head on over to unlock your X-Factor dot com and apply today.

Speaker 2: That's right. You get an opportunity to work directly with us to finally connect and conversation and build the relationships you deserve. Our emotional bids implementation session is this month. And we cannot wait to work with you. Unlock your X-Factor dot com. This week. Shout out goes to our recent core confidence, graduate Nancy who's taking the leap and a new career path, and that is never easy overcoming self-doubt learning to trust yourself and having the confidence to sell yourself is an unbelievable transformation in just six weeks.

Speaker 4: So prior to core confidence, I, I wouldn't say I had significant self-esteem issues, but I felt uncomfortable reaching out to people to build my business. And it was just like this, this weird thing about what are people going to say? And we're still going to think when I reach it. And so prior to core confidence, I was really, really uncomfortable. And amazingly now I don't actually, it doesn't bother me whatsoever. It's really cool. So I'm excited by that. I've been sending stuff on LinkedIn. I've been reaching out even to people who I knew, who I'm like, okay, are they going to think this is woo-hoo that I am doing hypnosis and, and coaching and yeah, it's, it's turning out to be really good. So

Speaker 2: Six weeks to unstoppable confidence and charisma to reach your dreams is so inspiring. Great work, Nancy, if you're ready to finally overcome your inner critic, beat imposter syndrome and become the confident and powerful best version of yourself. Head over to the art of charm.com/core to join our incredible program. We're excited to make you the next podcast, shout out the art of charm.com/core to learn more and join us this month. Got a question for us. Let us know. We're always excited to hear from you and you can send us your thoughts by going to the art of charm.com/questions. If you love this show, rate it in your favorite podcast. App means the world to me and Johnny, and it helps us get amazing guests on the show. We're so excited to hear what you want the next toolbox episode to be. So go ahead and tag us on social media and let us know what you want to hear from us. The art of charm podcast is produced by Michael Harold and Eric Montgomery until next week. I'm Johnny and I'm a J have a good one.

Speaker 5: [inaudible] [inaudible].